Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Zyneste]

second. still absurd. To even think rez mage would be above smn if anything else.

you didn't think i would.

You just want rez mage to be meta in speed runs, as well as prog, which idk why it would. And to make pure damage jobs worthless ontop of all that.

I think you're misinterpreting what she was saying.

She wants RDM to bring second highest RDPS contribution behind dancer and tied with NIN. Changing up embolden to all damage would put us allot closer to that. Its the typical model for classes that deal low personal damage.

High PDPS > Hybrid PDPS > Low PDPS.
Low RDPS < Hybrid DPS < High RDPS.

Examples are:
MCH BRD DNC
WHM SCH AST
BLM SMN RDM

[Zerathor]

I think you're misinterpreting what she was saying.

She wants RDM to bring second highest RDPS contribution behind dancer and tied with NIN. Changing up embolden to all damage would put us allot closer to that. Its the typical model for classes that deal low personal damage.

High PDPS > Hybrid PDPS > Low PDPS.
Low RDPS < Hybrid DPS < High RDPS.

Examples are:
MCH BRD DNC
WHM SCH AST
BLM SMN RDM

rdps is the only thing that matters. they want rdm to be the superior caster for both prog and speed runs, end of story.

[Archwizard]

rdps is the only thing that matters.

You're half-right? But also hilariously, painfully, ludicrously wrong.

So it's like this right: BLM is the caster with the highest personal DPS, and always shall be so long as it brings no group utility. While RDM may contribute more to raid damage via the use of buffs like Embolden, it's situational, in that it needs jobs that can reasonably reap the benefits of Embolden (which of course notoriously excludes other casters). Even if you brought mostly utility jobs whose focus is on maximizing raid damage, you would still want a competent BLM or similar job to stack and focus-cast those buffs on.
+10% to whatever damage RDM is doing maybe puts it on level with an unbuffed BLM for a couple seconds. +10% damage to the BLM blows everyone else out of the water, and invites a lot of other +% buffs from everyone else.

There's a place for both personal and raid DPS, and raid DPS scales only with the personal DPS it can amplify.

As for "the superior caster for both prog and speed runs"... personally I'd just want to see RDMs represented across the spectrum, not necessarily on top, but not limited only to progression runs either. The idea of any job being limited purely to progression or purely to farm is very gatekeep-y.

[Zerathor]

You're half-right? But also hilariously, painfully, ludicrously wrong.

So it's like this right: BLM is the caster with the highest personal DPS, and always shall be so long as it brings no group utility. While RDM may contribute more to raid damage via the use of buffs like Embolden, it's situational, in that it needs jobs that can reasonably reap the benefits of Embolden (which of course notoriously excludes other casters). Even if you brought mostly utility jobs whose focus is on maximizing raid damage, you would still want a competent BLM or similar job to stack and focus-cast those buffs on.
+10% to whatever damage RDM is doing maybe puts it on level with a BLM for a couple seconds. +10% damage to the BLM blows everyone else out of the water, and invites a lot of other +% buffs from everyone else.

There's a place for both personal and raid DPS, and raid DPS scales only with the personal DPS it can amplify.

As for "the superior caster for both prog and speed runs"... personally I'd just want to see RDMs represented across the spectrum, not necessarily on top, but not limited only to progression runs either.

blm has been the highest personal dps for a while. there was a reason it wasn't preferred in stormblood. its rdps being superior to pdps, even before regular people really understood that. So I believe you're hilariously wrong, or haven't played this game too long.

[Archwizard]

blm has been the highest personal dps for a while. there was a reason it wasn't preferred in stormblood. its rdps being superior to pdps, even before regular people really understood that.

Again, yes and no. In Stormblood half the issue was that the majority of DPS buffs a group could bring were focused on melee jobs -- vulnerability debuffs from every DoW and buffs like Embolden, versus literally only Contagion to buff magic DPS. RDM fit better with that composition because the team was better suited to stacking buffs on a melee.
Had there been just as many effects stacked in favor of casters we wouldn't see such an arrangement -- or as now, where many of those melee- or magic-specific effects have been stripped away or turned into general buffs with the notable exception of Embolden; no RDM on the team, no problem for the BLM, which is fairly standard anyway.

The other half being that BLM in Stormblood had limited mobility which could only be overcome with an intimate knowledge of the fight in the first place, weakening its position in progression next to two more mobile casters who offered rezzes.

[Wayfinder3]

I think you're misinterpreting what she was saying.

She wants RDM to bring second highest RDPS contribution behind dancer and tied with NIN. Changing up embolden to all damage would put us allot closer to that. Its the typical model for classes that deal low personal damage.

High PDPS > Hybrid PDPS > Low PDPS.
Low RDPS < Hybrid DPS < High RDPS.

Examples are:
MCH BRD DNC
WHM SCH AST
BLM SMN RDM

Yes thats what im saying

rdps is the only thing that matters. they want rdm to be the superior caster for both prog and speed runs, end of story.

Never claimed that lmao

[Zerathor]

Yes thats what im saying



Never claimed that lmao

no idea how that isn't what you're implying. This looks a lot more like purely buff dps jobs will be superior highly to bringing a single high personal dps job

[Wayfinder3]

no idea how that isn't what you're implying.

of course a BLM strawman can't possibly see the value of utility. you seem to think that Utility will always invalidate personal DPS unless there are insane gaps between those with utility and those without. This isn't true, there is a threshold where utility starts to scale against the jobs that have it. you're so blinded by how bad BLM had it early Stormblood(was meta in alphascape but you seem to forget) that you're advocating for the same thing to happen for the other 2 casters. Do you think it's fair, that a BLM could die or DC for 30sec straight and still outperform a masterful RDM. Do you believe it makes sense that BLM is such a good job for utility but RDM is the only job that can't actively abuse playing with one. I don't want RDM to be the best, i think the meta shouldn't be so much better than any other composition. now if you asked me if RDM should me meta for progression, i'd tell you YES because as it's currently designed, thats the ENTIRE point. unfortunately, we're not the best for progression, SMN was better than us through all tiers of 4.0 and ultimates except for Deltascape, Now BLM is doing the same thing to RDM. So tell me, what is the point in paying for broken progression utility when you're so weak, you can't even capitalize on what that means. RDM should be the best progression caster because thats the jobs SOLE contribution to final fantasy 14s dynamic.

[Zerathor]

i don't think you comprehend what strawman means. also, i saw what ultra super synergy teams do. we had a whole expansion for that. 1 and a half in fact.(it also wasn't, idk what drugs you're on). rdm needs a mild buff, but anything like what you'd want to happen are just insane. It'd be more of rdm just becoming smn during stormblood, which was the furthest thing from balance at any point in that expansion, even alphascape.

[Wayfinder3]

i don't think you comprehend what strawman means. also, i saw what ultra super synergy teams do. we had a whole expansion for that. (it also wasn't, idk what drugs you're on). rdm needs a mild buff, but anything like what you'd want to happen are just insane. It'd be more of rdm just becoming smn during stormblood, which was the furthest thing from balance at any point in that expansion.

Strawman: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. a person regarded as having no substance or integrity. (My BLM will be useless if utility dps get any buffs regardless of how much those buffs help)(If BLM did 500 more total raid contribution than rdm, people would still take it for speeds)

It wasn't? Pray tell why Black mage was in the fastest kill times for both O12 savage fights, as high as 2nd place of o9s and 4th place for o10s. the only fight BLM wasn't present in the top 10 for was o11s
thats a pretty meta relevant position to be in. meanwhile, rdm isn't top 10 in any of them, but the gap between RDM and BLM was nowhere near what it is now. you were so blind as to how bad you thought BLM had it, you missed the success it was having right in front of you.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/25