Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Miminming]

Lol sorry if i sound like i hate them but i actually love them mich more than you think, im just saying the JPN server common knowlegde ... the fflog death percentage screenshoot is pretty much a common knowlegde for people who read まとめサイト

[MaelleRiou]

Red mage is the training wheels for raiding. They're useful for learning the fights, but once the raid group has got the mechanics mostly down and are ready to push for kills it's better to have a black mage. It's probably not fair to heavily penalize red mage for that since it's basically just there for learning fights.

But red mage isn't significantly behind summoner as things currently are. It's just that the top half of DPS is way above the bottom half. Though I believe the life letter promised to adjust that, so may be better come end of October.

[RadicalPesto]

Red mage is the training wheels for raiding. They're useful for learning the fights, but once the raid group has got the mechanics mostly down and are ready to push for kills it's better to have a black mage. It's probably not fair to heavily penalize red mage for that since it's basically just there for learning fights.

Final Fantasy XIV is not a game designed around "prog jobs" which you "switch for something better once you learn the fight", as evidenced by the fact there's no Shadowbringers jobs that get called prog-only in any role except casters, and that the only other time this rhetoric has been deployed, it was as an excuse for the appalling state of white mage throughout much of Stormblood.

[Crushnight]

And again, you miss my biggest concern here: Bards aren't competing for spots with Black Mages. Red Mages are. This fight isn't about anyone else, nor does it exclude anyone else. This has nothing to do with who is super low and who isn't. The problem is that Ranged were specifically called out for receiving potency buffs, and I want to see Red Mage's problems addressed as well.

Brds/Mchs/Dncs/Rdms and Smns are all competing against Blm right now because Blm offers that much more than all of them its absurd how much ahead it is or more accurately how far behind those 5 are to it no 1 job should be allowed to be double stacked and be more dps than a mix of the jobs.

Now Raise tax should be a thing along the same vein as mobility tax but it should not be as much as it is, it is too much and needs to be reduced.

My core reasoning for raise tax is if anything like A4S happens again where dying to a mechanic is preferable to doing it would make Rdm really good saving/resing a hlr fast, but the likelihood such a mechanic workaround happens again is slim at best but it should be considered that the devs are giving a tax(again it is way too high a tax) in case they screw up like that again.

[Sequora]

Red mage is the training wheels for raiding. They're useful for learning the fights, but once the raid group has got the mechanics mostly down and are ready to push for kills it's better to have a black mage. It's probably not fair to heavily penalize red mage for that since it's basically just there for learning fights.

But red mage isn't significantly behind summoner as things currently are. It's just that the top half of DPS is way above the bottom half. Though I believe the life letter promised to adjust that, so may be better come end of October.

There shouldn’t be jobs like that. No other role has a job that’s good for only progression.

[Duskane]

There shouldn’t be jobs like that. No other role has a job that’s good for only progression.

well some people also thought this with WHM
but it doesn't make it any less of a meme title

"Prog job" is like a joke people have taken too seriously

[Katie_Kitty]

Red mage is the training wheels for raiding. They're useful for learning the fights, but once the raid group has got the mechanics mostly down and are ready to push for kills it's better to have a black mage. It's probably not fair to heavily penalize red mage for that since it's basically just there for learning fights.

But red mage isn't significantly behind summoner as things currently are. It's just that the top half of DPS is way above the bottom half. Though I believe the life letter promised to adjust that, so may be better come end of October.

You shouldn't have to switch jobs. Why is Red Mage the only job in the game that has to deal with people telling them they "should" switch or calling them "training wheels"? That is such a BS mentality and I refuse to accept being kept down just because some people have this warped perception of my favorite job.

[MaelleRiou]

You shouldn't have to switch jobs. Why is Red Mage the only job in the game that has to deal with people telling them they "should" switch or calling them "training wheels"? That is such a BS mentality and I refuse to accept being kept down just because some people have this warped perception of my favorite job.

As long as red mage can throw out as many instant raises as it currently can it'll remain training wheels.

RDM vs BLM movement can be summed up in that RDM has an advantage when it comes to on-demand short-term movement, and BLM has the advantage for on-demand long-term movement. They do very different things, and you can argue fight design caters to one type of movement or the other but comparing them is a bit pointless.

Red mage doesn't really have on demand movement other than Swiftcast and Enchanted Reprise. Red mage has to hard cast something to get Dual Cast, so it's not on demand at all. And since Dual Cast is used a soon as it is generated there are certainly times when the red mage has to move and does not have time to do a hard cast. Not to mention fights where movement is longer than a GCD.

Red mage can move more frequently than other casters, but it's not on demand movement. So fights like Eden and Titan where there's phases with a ton of movement the red mage is going to be resorting to Enchanted Reprise since they'll likely be unable to safely get off a hard cast.

[Excaliburnina]

Excaliburnina, I'm not sure why you're cherry picking misleading, unlabeled diagrams to discredit this argument.

They're 95th percentile, and if you want to argue about job balance you should at least try to display a job's ceiling (or close to it, since crit/dh rng can influence the maximum performance and not necessarily be indicative of actual performance, but FFlogs is very limited). You can post low percentile rankings and judge a job based on that, but jobs that aren't being played at their ceiling don't exactly provide useful information (you'll see NIN topping charts at lower percentiles, which is about the least useful information you could garner from the rankings). Even in the aggregate amounts, RDM's peak is still comparable with the rest of the jobs around it, so I still don't see what you're trying to show; that it isn't BLM? It shouldn't be, not with the difficulty of Verraise balance.

Except the big difference now is that fflogs is recording rDPS, whereas the numbers we had from Stormblood were only pDPS. This means that Embolden wasn't factored into our DPS, and it added about 500 DPS in Alphascape. That would put Black Mage only 2.88% ahead of Red Mage.

It was still ahead enough to not use hyperbolic arguments like "Throughout Stormblood, RDM has always been on par with BLM. "; you're severely understating how far ahead 2.88% actually is in a game like this.

This fight isn't about anyone else, nor does it exclude anyone else. This has nothing to do with who is super low and who isn't. The problem is that Ranged were specifically called out for receiving potency buffs, and I want to see Red Mage's problems addressed as well.

You contradict yourself inherently by comparing RDM to BLM. If this "fight" isn't about anyone other than RDM, why compare to BLM so often? If this doesn't exclude anyone, why claim it's only about RDM and imply bringing up other jobs around it isn't valid? Job balance is a problem encompassing every job, and where RDM places in the grand scheme of balance is what has brought this supposed issue into light in the first place.

[Leidiriv]

As long as red mage can throw out as many instant raises as it currently can it'll remain training wheels.



Red mage doesn't really have on demand movement other than Swiftcast and Enchanted Reprise. Red mage has to hard cast something to get Dual Cast, so it's not on demand at all. And since Dual Cast is used a soon as it is generated there are certainly times when the red mage has to move and does not have time to do a hard cast. Not to mention fights where movement is longer than a GCD.

Red mage can move more frequently than other casters, but it's not on demand movement. So fights like Eden and Titan where there's phases with a ton of movement the red mage is going to be resorting to Enchanted Reprise since they'll likely be unable to safely get off a hard cast.

if the problem is Dualcast Verraise, why not just adjust Dualcast to just reduce spell cast times by 5s? It still makes Thunder and Aero instant, but doesn't do much for Verraise. Boom, training wheels gone, RDM can be a functional caster without "but muh raise" being an issue.