"New game plus - quests will have no rewards..."

[MrThinker]

Sorry this may have been asked earlier in this thread, but will this also bring up more 4man trials in the dungeon roulette? Per people going through the missions again?
I might be weird but I like the idea of doing those more often.

At the moment the only story content that has those trials in it is the 2.0 ARR story, which they are not adding to be replayable in NG+ in lieu of planned story trimming by 5.3, after which it will be added to NG+ chapter select.

[Nedkel]

Originally planned to do HW, but right now if there would be no rewards i simply dont care anymore.
Lvling some other jobs would have been so nice, but nope.
What a shame.

[Nedkel]

Because people will use it for spamming. It's that simple. Bots, anyone?

The same reason have not stopped them from releasing trust system where bots could farm all day and night.

[DynnDiablos]

Anything in an MMO that causes people to take solo avenues instead of group avenues can negatively impact the group experience. This is precisely why they made Trusts as inefficient as they are, for instance. There's still potentially reason enough for some people to use them (insta queues for instance), but there's still many others that won't due to the fact they cannot play as efficiently as a party of human players.

If I don't want to play with others and experience the content on my own that is my choice. Everyone plays MMO's differently. I play this like a single player game where I sometimes have to interact with others. It is not by choice.

[Melichoir]

I didn't say no one would do it, I believe I said there would definitely be some that did. What I said was that it wouldn't be enough to cause problematic congestion, which was the issue I was addressing.

I think this is where we disagree. Depending how efficient the exp is, I could see a situation where it will push up queue times 5 or more minutes for DPS. I think there is a misconception regarding MMOs in that people play MMOs specifically to do content together. I think its more accurate that MMOs offer people a new means to socialize not over content, but that people will opt to do player content solo while using Linkshells/FC/Discord as their means to socialize. Not socialize via dungeons and content directly. How many runs have you done in DF where its dead silent after the barrier drops in a dungeon or Trial? Youre more likely to find chatter in Limsa pub gen than in DF. So it is more likely to me that yes, you will push queue times up and hurt DPS particularly by doing this.

The existence of bots that level really fast is .. very clearly .. not something SE is concerned about.

Youre literally arguing SE doesn't give a crap about bots cause they exist, so lets design a system that makes botting even easier cause why not. This goes back to an earlier point I made with investment and exp. This is the same issue. If you can just bot your way to 80, you have less investment in the game overall and more likely to be toxic due to unrealistic expectations. Not to mention people dont typically like playing MMOs if theyre perceived as a bot fest.

But again, what do you think the negative is here? Fewer people in DF that couldn't give less of a shit about what they're doing? I can live with that.

As much as I like to rag on the quality of DF, a majority of its players are average and do pay attention. Yes, there are bad players but they dont make up the lions share. Even with the baddies, if its only one guy, you can plow through DF at a decent rate anyways.

However, Youre essentially saying you want less people in DF while banking on the concept that "not that many people will opt out of DF" so that queue times remain similar. Then again, this kinda demonstrates you dont have a stake in DF as it is. If DF is a problem with players in it, why wouldnt you opt out of DF and do NG+?

This gets worsefor newer players, because they cant just use NG+ to level. They actually have to clear the content. But who cares about them, right? Pff, they can sit in those queues or deal with baddies, or whatever.

People will complain about literally anything. You're never (ever) going to please 100% of a large group of people. It can't be done. The existence of complaints is also not a reason to not do it.

Giving people an alternative leveling path, even if it's numerically inferior to dungeon grinding, is a good thing for the game. I'd have to go back and look but I don't remember deep dungeons getting this kind of backlash when they were talked about as a leveling path. Nor trusts. Why is this one special? Why would giving exp for NG+ be so horrible whereas those things weren't? Again I remind you that the sky is not falling.

If you cant please everyone and complaints will always happen, why are we distinguishing between your complaint about no exp, vs someone elses complaint regarding reduced/inefficient exp? Neither of them has any ground for saying that their complaint has any more legitimacy because its "People just complaining about literally anything" and it just is a matter of subjective opinion.

IIRC Deep dungeons did get backlash, but even then its still apples to apples and wasnt as bad. Party content to party content. It's not Party Content to solo content you can possibly blast through which might be a detriment to the overall health of the game. Also inferior to dungeon grinding is based on a few factors. For a tank, dungeon grinding is probably the fastest leveling method (and even then its debatable to some extent). But to a DPS? MSQ might be faster due to queue times alone even if its soul crushingly boring. Alternative leveling paths also matter by how that affects the game. Again, alternative leveling path where its party content - probably ok within reason. Alternative content that removes party play - probably not so much unless very carefully balanced against. Trusts themselves are extremely inefficient and already have people questioning why theyre a thing or that their exp gains/ai/etc should be tweaked so trusts are more on pair with DF.

As for pushback theres a few points youre not picking up on. Most of the people who are happy with NG+ in this thread arent saying "We dont want it to have exp ever." Most are (or were now that the discussion has shifted in a partisan issue) indifferent to the exp thing. The pushback came when people were complaining NG+ doesnt have exp, therefore is trash and should not have been made. That position is literally "If this thing doesnt give me what I want, no one should have it." It's not a position people who wanted NG+ for the story are fond of, particularly when the complaint issued by the "It's Trash" crowd is one that they self inflicted by expecting something never even mentioned or promised.

Beyond that, when people with the "Its Trash - Therefore shouldnt have been made" speak up about it , ask why it didnt get exp, and then chalk it up to SE incompetence, other people are offering up plausible reasoning why SE devs might have opted for no exp.

And thats where were at in this conversation - Arguing about the speculation why EXP wasnt a thing. No the sky isnt falling, and werent arguing that exp shouldnt be in NG+. Far as I am concerned if they want to add it, thats their call. Everything Ive offered up and suggested has been trying to explain reasoning as to why they might not implement exp. Thats it. As Ive also said, no one is a bad person for wanting exp in NG+ and being bummed it isnt happening. I draw a line when the argument is NG+ is crap and shouldnt be implemented/invested in cause without exp its worthless.

[Colino]

The problem with using CT as an example of NG+ is that exp didnt scale. So yeah, killing those goblins right after you tele to 600 AD when you were already level 50+ is by all intensive purposes pointless.

Why? WHYYYY

[Melichoir]

Why? WHYYYY

Are you gonna seriously stand around and grind goblins and rolis when they offer like 6 exp and you need 15k to get to the next level when your lvl 50? I mean you could, but that is in no way even remotely practical. Because of this, its pointless to be fighting those mobs in NG+.

The most practical way to grind EXP in NG+ is defeating the Black Omen in reverse chronology IIRC, but thats way later in the game.

In any case, NG+ giving exp for FFXIV is predicated on 1 of 2 models:
1) NG+ will scale its exp - So if you do the first start quests, but are level 50 on a class, the exp will scale so it will award exp that is comparable to level 50 MSQ even if its only level 5 MSQ. This means finding the quest chain thats the quickest/easiest and spamming that one till 80.
2) NG+ will not scale exp - Exp will remain the same regardless of level. If this is the case, it is not like CT, because CT does not reset you back to level 1, where FFXIV would if you were to be leveling a new class. Youre not comparing like models anymore so why even then use CT as an example. CT doesnt promote you 'leveling' in NG+ on the early monsters. Then this deals with gating - Its gonna require that you wont be able to do MSQ above your class level, otherwise youd just queue into later MSQ events that are mainly text based and power level that way. Which would mean the likely way to get around gating is to repeat a quest chain until you get past the gate. This then means that people are gonna number crunch and figure out what MSQ are most optimal to power level, turning NG+ into nothing more than an expedient power leveling tool and not a means of replaying the MSQ.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

He was bolding your incorrect usage of the phrase. It's not intensive purposes. It's "for all intents and purposes".

Edit: yay phones

[Shougun]

Wonder if the devs will talk about rewards a little bit the next time they reveal this new feature for 5.1, maybe we can have some more insight on their thoughts since they've rolled out some info.

"we're considering X, we can't do Y, because X" etc.

He was building your incorrect usage of the phrase. It's not intensive purposes. It's "for all intents and purposes".

This is literally bone apple tea!

[Melichoir]

He was building your incorrect usage of the phrase. It's not intensive purposes. It's "for all intents and purposes".

I am fluent in crappy english and even crappier english. Pretty sure if you read through most my posts, there's a lot of junk like that. Oh well, if thats the only critique, Ill take it .