"New game plus - quests will have no rewards..."

[Nemmar]

I wasn't aware this was the WoW forum. And who said to remove quest rewards?? This is about NG+. Level 80 content. For characters who don't even NEED exp in the first place. If it wasn't, bots would ruin it anyway.

None of this matters anyway because SE said it NG+ won't have rewards. They are not likely to change their minds.

Huh? No, this is the FFXIV forum, wich is why bots are an issue that needs resolving. That problem doesn't exist on the most popular mmo's. It will not be fixed by game design, so stop arm-chair trying to design the game cause of bots. It has never has fixed it and it never will. It's a tech problem. They need to fix their tech or sell the gold themselves. This is all off-topic honestly. Stop dragging bots into design discussions guys. I know they are frustrating, but gaming design will not stop them. There is always something they can do as long as the program runs. That is what needs to be stopped.

Yes, i know what they announced. Why do people get so personal over someone saying they would like something to be added when it doesn't affect them in the least? I really don't get it. These forums tire me. If one doesn't speak up, nothing will ever change, no. I just don't get why it's so offensive. I am not denying you anything.

I don't get into the male viera thread saying no they can't have it cause they already got female and that's that. I mean, that's pretty terrible. There would be no point to fan feedback if everyone just resigned themselves to accept only what the devs present. They may not change anything, but these forums are for us to leave our feedback, and sometimes, it might change something.
I mean are you saying this on the housing threads too? Housing is fine, the devs have announced what it is and that's that. If you don't like it, it isn't for you. I dunno, i just can't follow that narrative.

But, fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

[MikuMitsuko]

Huh? No, this is the FFXIV forum, wich is why bots are an issue that needs resolving. That problem doesn't exist on the most popular mmo's. It will not be fixed by game design, so stop arm-chair trying to design the game cause of bots. It has never has fixed it and it never will. It's a tech problem. They need to fix their tech or sell the gold themselves. This is all off-topic honestly. Stop dragging bots into design discussions.

Yes, i know what they announced. Why do people get so personal over someone saying they would like something to be added when it doesn't affect them in the least? I really don't get it. These forums tire me. If one doesn't speak up, nothing will ever change, no. I just don't get why it's so offensive. I am not denying you anything.

I don't into the male viera thread saying no they can't have it cause they already got female and that's that. I mean, that's pretty terrible.

You're being oddly defensive. Is it that bad that someone disagrees with you about something so insignificant as NG+ exp? And it's not dragging them into anything when they're relevant lmao

You're the only one acting offended, my dude.

[Nemmar]

You're being oddly defensive. Is it that bad that someone disagrees with you about something so insignificant as NG+ exp? And it's not dragging them into anything when they're relevant lmao

You're the only one acting offended, my dude.

Well cause there are people here saying the new game + system can't be improved cause reasons. If it's insignificant, why do you care so much to deny it? Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed. So the question is in fact, why are you so defensive about it?

[Voltyblast]

I'll be totally honest reading through all this stuff, if you're not going to use it and it's not going to bother your gameplay experience why complain about it so adamantly?

Because it's using resources that could've been spent for improving actual content that could use more refining - like blue mage needing a proper overhaul for example.

So people are essentially asking for making it more worthwhile for EVERYONE and not just those niche players who really REALLY want to replay the story without replaying the story (from the start), by adding a few rewards like exp or even glamour so that EVERYONE would take something from it while the niche players, who REALLY want to replay the story, will replay the story.

This reminds me of when they released Verminion back in 3.1: it was advertised as a big content release but not only it died almost instantly due to the fact it required to sacrifice your dungeon queue for another queue, it was mainly a minigame for those who collect pets and nothing more. If you didn't care about pets you probably never cared about verminion, and yet it took a big chunk of resources that could've been used to make diadem worthwhile for more than 24 hours, before they nerfed it to worthless levels.

I just hope this little niche feature won't make POTD 3.0 and Eureka 2.0 a broken mess and delayed because of time constraints, or worse.

PS: Dark Souls is an offline game and FFXIV is an MMORPG, two different genres entirely: I'd compare FFXIV to SWTOR instead, as both rely on storytelling too.

[Melichoir]

Well cause there are people here saying the new game + system can't be improved cause reasons. If it's insignificant, why do you care so much to deny it? Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed. So the question is in fact, what about this offends YOU so much?

People are giving their speculation why the devs may not have included exp in it. Theyre making the educated guess that the likely reason the devs dont have it give exp is it could cause some sort of imbalance. This is different from your Point of View, where you speculate they didnt do it cause...lazyness? Theyre incompetent? Or some other failing that is so easily avoidable. We can speculate all we want about it, but at the end of the day the devs did not incorporate exp into it for whatever their reasoning is. And your assertion that there's no good reason relies on you ignoring everyone elses position regarding this.

If were gonna discuss why it might possibly cause issues, a pretty straightforward point is that youre hoping it would have exp as a means to replace other leveling methods. For that to be satisfactory, it would need to incorporate roughly the same exp rate if not better. And when you get to doing that, then its a point of min maxing. All it takes is one person to figure out the math and point out that running "Chapter X" over and over is faster than anything else. Im willing to bet that in that case, said chapter probably will be predominately a dialogue chapter. It is most likely that if no exp is involved, it has specifically to do with some variation of this point. Now you may not like this. You may think its stupid. You may think "Who cares if I can do this!" but the Devs care, and theyre priority is to the game and their company. You dont like it, well, sucks to suck but thats tough beans.

If you dont think the min/maxing is a thing then let me point you to POTD. For a while, the fastest way to level was spamming floors 50-59. Or how about Doma Castle? That was just pull to the first boss then quit and repeat. People are clever about min maxing. With as expansive as the MSQ is and the ability to pinpoint a direct point in the story, what makes you think that this wont happen either? Particularly if exp from NG+ were to scale with level. Fairly certain that for overall game health, it probably wouldnt be good to depopulate content that requires gameplay in favor of other content that can be done by spamming left click.

Again this is speculation, but its grounded in basic thinking here and pointing to previous examples that are/were in the game. Its just an explanation as to why the devs might not want it to give exp. Its not offensive to players if it were, but were not complaining and dismissing any possible reason why it doesnt outside of "The Devs Suck".

[MikuMitsuko]

Well cause there are people here saying the new game + system can't be improved cause reasons. If it's insignificant, why do you care so much to deny it? Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed. So the question is in fact, why are you so defensive about it?

...how am I being defensive? Again, you're the only one being defensive. Your first reply to me was you immediately acting like a victim in the first sentence lmao. Also, you'd do well not to make assumptions, might help people take you more seriously.
And I have many more reasons. Biggest being it's LEVEL 80 content. Level 80s can't gain exp. So. it's literally 100% pointless to have exp rewards.

It's also pointless to try and point out this obvious fact to you since you seem to take every little disagreement as a personal slight against you.

[Melichoir]

snip

Omg! its not actual content because "It doesnt fit my narrow perception of what content is."

LoV, whether you like it or not, was content. It was content for pet lovers or for GS people. But this argument that it has to appease the broadest audience otherwise it shouldnt be implemented is like saying Ultimate should not have been added cause a very small cross section of the population play it. Zoom that out a touch, and you include savage too, as a minority of players actually engage in that content. Hell, both eat your dungeon queues too and took resources from Eureka/Diadem/regular dungeons/etc.

When people argue about resources, it almost always boils down to subjective views of what is 'real content' that is defined very ambiguously. The assumption is that if this thing wasnt developed, the "real content" would be developed better. There is no evidence this would be the case. Plenty of anecdote that the game would be a lot more sparse in things you can do though. The thing is, if you can play it, its content. You may not like it, it may not be for everyone, but it's still content. And the devs Im pretty sure nixed possible exp not out of making sure the audience was niche lore players, but probably out of pragmatic reasons and game health.

[Nemmar]

...how am I being defensive? Again, you're the only one being defensive. Your first reply to me was you immediately acting like a victim in the first sentence lmao. Also, you'd do well not to make assumptions, might help people take you more seriously.
And I have many more reasons. Biggest being it's LEVEL 80 content. Level 80s can't gain exp. So. it's literally 100% pointless to have exp rewards.

It's also pointless to try and point out this obvious fact to you since you seem to take every little disagreement as a personal slight against you.

I am pretty sure that it's one level 80 required to unlock it. But you are being disingenuous on purpose. They can very much let you level low level jobs if they so will. It is not something set it stone forever more. Game design is subject to change. If not, ARR would never have happened. So, it is odd to see players here saying such things.

Anyways, i think that is all. It's not a personal disagreement but an uncomprehensible action from people, as it doesn't affect them in the least and would in fact make the feature more popular, wich would be good for everyone that wants to enjoy it. So, really, i don't understand the fixation in just digging in and saying "it's for me not for you" so it can't get any improvements that would allow more people to enjoy it! It seems like there is something here that people are uncomfortable to admit or come to terms with by recurring to exaggeration like Xp amount could never be balanced or amount of gil or whatever new features. Or maybe just like to be disagreeable? I dunno. Either way i already said we can agree to disagree.

[Noitems]

snip

This isn't really big worthwhile content though. Really all they need to do is just rewrite the script for putting you into each chapter and just plop you in like that. The fact they're retooling the ARR MSQ and planning it work along with NG+ is pretty big as that's going to affect new players coming in and stream lining the experience.

As I stated before you don't really need to do that though. Current options through rous and dungeons are eons better then the experience the MSQ would give you at that level if it offered them. I know people want to die on this hill it should have bonuses but I don't get a bonus for playing a visual novel again completely past seeing the minor options and leisure of it all, which NG+ is being advertised as just reliving the story. I'm using a visual novel as a main point as well since you keep bringing up the story, and with NG+'s main feature being the story it seems like a good comparison.

Another point I see and want to ask, did SE at any point say you would actually get any rewards from these NG+ runs? They said you could redo the quests but I don't remember them ever saying you would get anything past the story That's just putting out expectations for SE because YOU think it would happen only to be angry they didn't meet them.

I wouldn't really compare a mode (or limited job) with brand new assets/ huge amounts of scripting to a mode that is just letting you replay the story again with minor scripting. NG+ is easy to update as it's just like pressing a reset button while you're in the mode, adding brand new elements and balances are asking for a lot more then making your slate clean which a big part of the reason Verminion never gets updated (on top of the lacking playerbase). By comparison Mahjong (something people thought was a worthless addition) still gets updated because it's easy to do and is just simply adjusting score values that are set in stone because of the game it is.

The reason I use Dark Souls is because Dark Souls is a JRPG, just like XIV is an MMOJRPG. It doesn't matter if the game is online or not the fact is both games have optional modes you're not being forced into doing, yet people want to make a big stink over it because of ridiculous reasons and claim that they are completely worthless since they don't suit them.

For the record I'm okay with calling SE out on their BS for things that make sense (Housing, Eureka future proofing, botting), this whole argument doesn't do that though. You're putting your own words in their mouths and then being angry they aren't parroting them back to you. It's just a simple mode to let people re-enjoy the story either solo or with friends, it doesn't deserve the absolute hate you're giving it.

[MikuMitsuko]

I am pretty sure that it's one level 80 required to unlock it. But you are being disingenuous on purpose. They can very much let you level low level jobs if they so will. It is not something set it stone forever more. Game design is subject to change. If not, ARR would never have happened. So, it is odd to see players here saying such things.

Anyways, i think that is all. It's not a personal disagreement but an uncomprehensible action from people, as it doesn't affect you in the least and would in fact make the feature more popular, wich would be good for everyone that wants to enjoy it. So, really, i don't understand the fixation in just digging in and saying it's for me not for you so it can't get any improvements that would allow more people to enjoy it! It seems like there is something here that people are uncomfortable to admit or come to terms with. Or maybe just like to be disagreeable? I dunno. Either way i already said we can agree to disagree.

Yeah since you seem to not be capable of reading posts and for some reason ignore everything else said in this thread I'm just going to stop replying after this to save my own sanity