"New game plus - quests will have no rewards..."

[HyoMinPark]

Got it, as long as you get your stuff, you don't care if the rest of the content is broken, delayed or unfinished. Fair enough I guess.

Except, this content isn't "broken, delayed or unfinished". The developers never once said or implied that New Game+ was going to offer players experience or be an alternative/additional option for leveling alt jobs. They have always advertised it as a way for players who want to redo the story to redo the story, which has been requested numerous times - and never with the added "oh, by the way, let us level alt jobs with this feature" comment people are suddenly making. That was never a point brought up in discussions that were asking for the ability to redo the story.

The developers have delivered the requested feature. Nothing more, nothing less. People that expected to be getting experience out of this feature - despite no indication that this would be the case - are the only ones who have set themselves up for disappointment right now. Or ones who are citing it as being similar to other game's NG+ options. Quite frankly, a lot of disappointment could have been avoided without making assumptions.

The content isn't delayed. They said it was coming out in Patch 5.1 during the Pre-ShB PLL, and it's being released in Patch 5.1.

The only one you can semi-argue is "unfinished", if only because it won't initially include ARR and job quests. However, the former is being redone and condensed, and is set to "re-release" in Patch 5.3 in this new, condensed fashion. So I can understand why they wouldn't include ARR in the initial release only to have to re-add the new version later. I wish they would include the job quests, but perhaps since a large chunk are stuck in ARR content, they're wanting to release them after ARR is condensed to avoid any potential mishaps with interactive coding for the level 1~50 class/job quests. Sucks, because I want the DRK quests available now, but I can try to be patient and wait a bit longer. All that said, the "unfinished" here is being used in reference to the "No rewards, no experience" - not the fact that it doesn't currently include ARR and job quests. So, no. The content isn't "unfinished" with regards to this argument because it never promised rewards or experience in the first place.

I am honestly astonished by how heated this seems to be getting. There's nothing wrong with people asking for exp rewards from NG+. It's it required? No. Is it something we should assume we'll get? No. Should the rewards be identical to what they were before? No probably not. Is NG+ awesome all on its own? Absolutely!

But I don't see how it's such a bad thing to wish for an alternative for leveling outside of roulettes and eternal grinding? I personally love leveling by story far more than by most other ways. I don't even mind the sheer number of quests because I'm enjoying myself. I would cheerfully drag literally every other job I haven't been bothered to level up to 80 if I got to enjoy the story with each one lol! I mean, I'll enjoy the feature regardless, but I can't fault anyone for asking for some form of reward other than getting to see the story again.

This issue is that the side of the argument that is pro-rewards/pro-EXP are discounting the feature as "useless", a "waste of resources", and saying that it shouldn't be added at all because it doesn't meet their specific expectations.

[Pixiehawk]

I am probably in a minority here, but I make alts to redo the story. Most have not progressed far, as ARR is a slog. I would love to redo the story on my main. I will probably re-run certain stories many times on my main. I am looking forward to re-doing Little Sun. That instance was a blast - even though it took me a few times, as I went in blind and was laughing my butt off when I died. I am sooooo looking forward to this!

Would it be cool if they had rewards for re-doing the story? Sure. I wouldn't mind XP for my jobs that have not hit 80 yet. I'd never say no to Gil. But the SOLE reason I'd do this is for the story. I want to get to know lost friends again. I want to do the (instanced, non-dungeon) fights again. I want to console Tataru when her horrible Carby runs away. I don't want to get the goodies for my feast again, but hey, maybe they'll streamline that out of ARR before it's added and I won't have to. And if they don't I'll suffer through it again just to see how they changed ARR anyhow.

I will do and enjoy this content, as they've shown it. If that is not the case for you, it's not for you. I'm not a raider. I don't have a schedule that would allow for it, and I enjoy other parts of the game more. Would I love the rewards from raiding? Sure, but I'm not going to ask for changes to raiding to make it work for me. If you are not a story person that's ok. This is for people who only want story. For those of us who love the story, the ability to redo it, as is, is enough of a reward.

[Melichoir]

snip

Omg! its not actual content because "It doesnt fit my narrow perception of what content is."

LoV, whether you like it or not, was content. It was content for pet lovers or for GS people. But this argument that it has to appease the broadest audience otherwise it shouldnt be implemented is like saying Ultimate should not have been added cause a very small cross section of the population play it. Zoom that out a touch, and you include savage too, as a minority of players actually engage in that content. Hell, both eat your dungeon queues too and took resources from Eureka/Diadem/regular dungeons/etc.

When people argue about resources, it almost always boils down to subjective views of what is 'real content' that is defined very ambiguously. The assumption is that if this thing wasnt developed, the "real content" would be developed better. There is no evidence this would be the case. Plenty of anecdote that the game would be a lot more sparse in things you can do though. The thing is, if you can play it, its content. You may not like it, it may not be for everyone, but it's still content. And the devs Im pretty sure nixed possible exp not out of making sure the audience was niche lore players, but probably out of pragmatic reasons and game health.

[Gula]

Why would you get rewards... that you already got?

[Niwashi]

Why would you get rewards... that you already got?

That argument makes sense when it comes to a lot of the specific item rewards, but for generic things like XP and gil, it's the same reason you get them again if you replay a dungeon you've already run, or do a FATE again which you've run before, craft an item you've made before, and so on. Most repeatable content has repeatable rewards.

In this case, the original rewards were designed and balanced around the idea that they'd be a one time thing, so they shouldn't be just carried over as-is into New Game plus as repeatable rewards. They'd need to be reconfigured for a repeatable reward balance.

(Personally, I'm of the opinion that that's likely to be more effort than it's worth, since those rewards aren't needed here, but opinions can vary on that.)

[Jojoya]

I can understand not giving the original gear and gil rewards but feel that XP should still be rewarded (assuming the player isn't using a level capped job) equal to what would have been received while doing it for the first time.

I think we still need a little more information about how NG+ works with relation to our job level. At one point level scaling was mentioned (as opposed to level sync) so players would be able to use their full toolkit but I can't recall any clarification since.

Why would you get rewards... that you already got?

Why do people get rewards for going into a dungeon they've already done, or a FATE they've already completed?

If the one of the main purposes of NG+ is to let people who used skip potions experience the content, then those players never got the rewards in the first place. They didn't already get those rewards.

[Melichoir]

I can understand not giving the original gear and gil rewards but feel that XP should still be rewarded (assuming the player isn't using a level capped job) equal to what would have been received while doing it for the first time.

I think we still need a little more information about how NG+ works with relation to our job level. At one point level scaling was mentioned (as opposed to level sync) so players would be able to use their full toolkit but I can't recall any clarification since.

If it doesnt have the exp thing, it shouldnt be a big deal. It was never a promised feature. Dont even think they mentioned that they would think about it. If it gets exp, it doesnt make a lick of difference to people who wanted it for the replay value. The general trend Im seeing is the issue with it is coming from people expecting something that was never even offered and it's based on a personal assumption they get from other games. And you know what, its fine to be like "Hey I wished it had exp as part of it." Most people wouldnt oppose that concept. It becomes a problem when not having exp is being framed as "Well this whole thing is a waste and never shouldve been implemented." This second statement is frankly saying "Unless it has personal utility for me, I dont wnat it in game no matter what. Everyone else be damned."

If the one of the main purposes of NG+ is to let people who used skip potions experience the content, then those players never got the rewards in the first place. They didn't already get those rewards.

Umm they did. They were compensated by quite literally being put instantly at a level/part of the story. Therye literally paying cash to have all that experience up front, so they dont have to expend the time like other players. Theyre not being denied anything in this regards. They even get a nifty synopsis. If those players want to go back and experience it after willingly saying "Nah, rather skip all that," thats up to the player. But they shouldnt be rewarded exp by this argument as theyve already received all of it.

[Gula]

Why do people get rewards for going into a dungeon they've already done, or a FATE they've already completed?

If the one of the main purposes of NG+ is to let people who used skip potions experience the content, then those players never got the rewards in the first place. They didn't already get those rewards.

You re-run dungeons for exp. Duh. And it's usually on level. You don't queue for Sastasha when you're trying to get from 79 to 80. NG+ isn't about how much gil or exp you got after the showdown with Raubahn. It's the experience for story. And if they jump potioned, then yes they already got the rewards. 300k gil right off the bat is pretty solid. You get all the glams and extra items except choice rewards like potions you'll never use, materia that's outdated and if you want to NG+ after buying a story skip you should have just played the story in the first place since levels aren't included!

[stanrir]

I'm sure some people will love it, and I am happy for them... Buuuuuut I think I will give it a hard pass XD I did the story once and that is plenty for me

[Melichoir]

Got it, as long as you get your stuff, you don't care if the rest of the content is broken and delayed. Fair enough I guess.

They offered us the ability to replay the MSQ. Were getting that. As for the 'rest of the content', like what? Or even better, should all content be put on hold till something is perfect? So we shouldnt have MSQ, dungeons, 24 mans, fates, or anything until we fix, lets say, Ninja. Gotta put the breaks on it all until ninja is fixed! God, could you imagine this design philosophy if what needed to be fixed was a GS event? Or a Fate? "Sorry Guys, no new dungeons cause a few fates are not working as intended. We've devoted all our resources to fixing this issue."

No, I never said as long as I get mine, screw everyone else. In fact, apparently the inverse of this point is what Im seeing people argue if they are against NG+ should it not have exp. "If I dont get exp, then screw everyone who wants this feature. It shouldnt be implemented". Then it's justifed with the good ol 'it takes away resources from "content"' point. Which then requires us to define what content is, and that is almost always defined as "Content is whatever I enjoy and/or mainstream." Followed up by the assumption that "If this other feature wasnt in the game, the real content would be so much better!" because its always guaranteed that the team would shift their focus to what is deemed content by people making the resources point, or that current content can be easily improved if devs just werent wasting time on all this silly 'non-content' stuff.

Im being snarky, but I am irked by the "Real Content" argument that gets brought up. You want to know what real content is IMO? If you can play it in game, its content. You may not enjoy it, or use a feature, but its content, and people will find worth in it, even if others do not.