Thread: BLU MAGE...PATCH 5.1...HMMMMMM?

Originally Posted by HarryTipper

I know i posted this in another BLU thread already, but since it's relevant again...

Originally Posted by Auryan

Interesting information for an unverified census. Though I do have some questions and follow-up questions.
First one. The data goes back to last February, correct? A month or so after BLU was added in 4.5.1. Does the data take into account late adopters? Why not do a tally of the number of unlocked and completed BLUs after two months+ instead of barely a month?

Second question. What are the criteria for something to be considered "successful"? 100% adoption and completion rates? That's crazy. 80%? I don't think so. Does it have to compete completion wise with expansion jobs like SAM and RDM? Or given its status as side activity will have to be compared to other content like GS/Eureka/DoH/DoL? Apples and apples, and some such.

Third question. You touched on Savage. Something less than 10% of the entire base participates, let alone completes. By your conclusion regarding BLU, shouldn't they then focus on content that is more popular than something as niche and "poor performing" as Savage?

The data only tells me so much, but I'm missing context to put it all into perspective. And without that I'm only expressing my preconceived biases. And that just won't do.

I imagine he just didn't think it was important enough to follow up on after Blue Mage released, especially given how the reception went. I don't imagine those numbers would climb by any significant margin within a month or two.

It depends on the content. Savage, for example, is specifically aimed at a smaller demographic who a reasonable challenge. Bear in mind, because it shares development resources with Normal mode, it's essentially a two-for-one deal. Blue Mage, on the other hand, was intended for the casual playerbase, and released at a time where there was a massive content lull. The fact it did so poorly when there was very little happening as we wanted for Shadowbringer speaks volumes.

Like I said, context is important. Savage isn't aimed at the wider playerbase.

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I imagine he just didn't think it was important enough to follow up on after Blue Mage released, especially given how the reception went. I don't imagine those numbers would climb by any significant margin within a month or two.

It depends on the content. Savage, for example, is specifically aimed at a smaller demographic who a reasonable challenge. Bear in mind, because it shares development resources with Normal mode, it's essentially a two-for-one deal. Blue Mage, on the other hand, was intended for the casual playerbase, and released at a time where there was a massive content lull. The fact it did so poorly when there was very little happening as we wanted for Shadowbringer speaks volumes.

Like I said, context is important. Savage isn't aimed at the wider playerbase.

Given what reception? From whom? The forum? Reddit? They only represent themselves and not the player base as a whole. Of course you should take into account people who pick up content at a later date. I mean it happens for Savage and Eureka for example. Why not BLU?

Yes, it depends on the content. Not all content are meant to appeal to everyone. I do take an issue on how you're creating false categories to arbitrarily split BLU and Savage. You can just as easily call Savage (and any content for that matter) as "something to do" when during a content drought. I remember hearing that criticism towards Eureka too. Huh, it's funny that BLU and Eureka can be called as disposable content, but not Savage or Ultimate. I'm guessing something to do with 'niches', right?

What do you mean that Savage isn't aimed at the general playerbase? They have tried for a while to get more people to do it, and not just the hardcore few. With Ultimate out, they have been trying to make it even more accessible for the casual player. I can't tell you if that's working, since I don't have the numbers. But at least I'm not jumping the gun and calling the attempt a failure and encouraging SE to abandon ship and focus on more popular things that I like.

The fact is that despite fulfilling a niche, Savage and Ultimate are still done by a select few, despite SE trying to make it appealing to a wider audience, yet you're not calling that a failure and waste of time and development. You're even rationalizing it by mentioning how relatively cheap it is to develop Savage/Ultimate, while not giving BLU the same benefit (BLU learns skills that are already in-game, borrows gear from casters, no weapon stats, no need for balance, etc). Why do you suppose that is?

Originally Posted by Auryan

Given what reception? From whom? The forum? Reddit? They only represent themselves and not the player base as a whole. Of course you should take into account people who pick up content at a later date. I mean it happens for Savage and Eureka for example. Why not BLU?

Yes, it depends on the content. Not all content are meant to appeal to everyone. I do take an issue on how you're creating false categories to arbitrarily split BLU and Savage. You can just as easily call Savage (and any content for that matter) as "something to do" when during a content drought. I remember hearing that criticism towards Eureka too. Huh, it's funny that BLU and Eureka can be called as disposable content, but not Savage or Ultimate. I'm guessing something to do with 'niches', right?

What do you mean that Savage isn't aimed at the general playerbase? They have tried for a while to get more people to do it, and not just the hardcore few. With Ultimate out, they have been trying to make it even more accessible for the casual player. I can't tell you if that's working, since I don't have the numbers. But at least I'm not jumping the gun and calling the attempt a failure and encouraging SE to abandon ship and focus on more popular things that I like.

The fact is that despite fulfilling a niche, Savage and Ultimate are still done by a select few, despite SE trying to make it appealing to a wider audience, yet you're not calling that a failure and waste of time and development. You're even rationalizing it by mentioning how relatively cheap it is to develop Savage/Ultimate, while not giving BLU the same benefit (BLU learns skills that are already in-game, borrows gear from casters, no weapon stats, no need for balance, etc). Why do you suppose that is?

The fact that even in-game Blue Mage were nigh non-existent less than a week after its release? While the forums, reddit and discord communities don't make up a large portion of the community, whenever opinions are extremely lop-sided, they tend to be what the community feels overall. That reception alongside these unofficial census is more than enough data to suggest Blue Mage performed quite poorly. Key word being suggest. It isn't definitive nor did I say otherwise.

You could. You'd also be mistaken. Since you bring up Ultimate. That content was exclusively designed for the 1% and arguably exceeded its niche when you consider it attracted more Twitch viewership than any other content in this game's entire life. And it cost the dev team very little as it reused almost everything. Basically, it was huge value due to its low cost and what it set out to accomplish. Savage aims for a higher demographic but falls under a similar niche, yes. You are ignored my mention that Savage shares development with Normal. As one essentially has slightly more mechanics and higher scaling. Only Titan this tier had an entirely unique phase. Put simply, they're developing Normal mode and Savage together.

Furthermore, the Savage tier was no longer new in 4.5. By the time Blue Mage released, Savage was 15-16 weeks old. It's a bit disingenuous compare the two as "something to do" when one just released as a brand new piece of content the game hadn't done before while the other had been out for nearly four months.

Trying to attract more people do Savage isn't the same as trying make it appeal to the general playerbase. This is entire game is decidedly casual minded, thus Savage will never appeal to the greater majority nor has it ever been intended to. They're targeting a midcore scene, which they have since Creator. Funny enough, you bring up Eureka yet the dev team outright acknowledged they designed Pagos for the "narrow elite player-base to go deeper." Which they admitted was a poor decision in hindsight, and likely what led to such divisive opinions regarding said content.

You're trying to create a correlation that do not exist. SE only made Savage appeal to a wide raid audience not the general playerbase. And they expressly stated Ultimate was only meant for those seeking a significantly harder challenge. It was never intended for anyone but the more hardcore players. Blue Mage does not fall into either category, thereby making them not comparable.