Yo those QOL for DOH & DOL

[Nyvara]

Personally I find these unfun:

• Relying on luck even with theoretical best gear and rotation: this only leads to frustration.
• Relying on gear but once you invest the tens of millions it's all just macro crafting: this is boring.

I really hope we get a good design for end-game crafting. End-game for crafters shouldn't end when you get that 5% meld completed. Macro crafting should be non-existent in the end-game. The best items, most coveted products, should all require actual understanding of your rotation and a stat build to go with that rotation. And to remove macros from the end-game market supply chain, some new mechanics need to be built into crafting.

Otherwise crafting will forever just be a hurdle to making gil. One that can be easily overcome by just copy-pasting builds and macros from the Internet and spending time activating those macros.

Sorry no. For me Crafting did not become fun until I learned about macros. Before then it was mind boggling complex. Again I only speak for myself when I say I don't craft to compete or make gil I do it to help friends or for my own enjoyment. That is my fun. Crafting should not have a savage level at end game where only 3%(made up number!) of the games population can do it.

[NanaWiloh]

Personally I find these unfun:

• Relying on luck even with theoretical best gear and rotation: this only leads to frustration.
• Relying on gear but once you invest the tens of millions it's all just macro crafting: this is boring.

I really hope we get a good design for end-game crafting. End-game for crafters shouldn't end when you get that 5% meld completed. Macro crafting should be non-existent in the end-game. The best items, most coveted products, should all require actual understanding of your rotation and a stat build to go with that rotation. And to remove macros from the end-game market supply chain, some new mechanics need to be built into crafting.

Otherwise crafting will forever just be a hurdle to making gil. One that can be easily overcome by just copy-pasting builds and macros from the Internet and spending time activating those macros.

Macro's do not change the effectiveness of a crafting rotation. You put garabage rotation into a macro its still a garabage rotation the macro does not change that fact. All macro's do is make it so you dont have to hit each button in your rotation manually..

[Driavna]

Personally I find these unfun:

• Relying on luck even with theoretical best gear and rotation: this only leads to frustration.
• Relying on gear but once you invest the tens of millions it's all just macro crafting: this is boring.

I really hope we get a good design for end-game crafting. End-game for crafters shouldn't end when you get that 5% meld completed. Macro crafting should be non-existent in the end-game. The best items, most coveted products, should all require actual understanding of your rotation and a stat build to go with that rotation. And to remove macros from the end-game market supply chain, some new mechanics need to be built into crafting.

Otherwise crafting will forever just be a hurdle to making gil. One that can be easily overcome by just copy-pasting builds and macros from the Internet and spending time activating those macros.

Please, tell me: how fun is for you to manually crafting more than 100 collectables for scrips + all the side parts because quick synthesis fail rate is unacceptable? If you want to remove macros, first you need to fix this problem.

Also, a lot of crafters enjoy preparing their own macros (myself included) to suit their needs/gear and also sharing them.

I will also say that is extremely disappointing that people always aim to make crafting more annoying instead of more fun. I will like for SE to revamp al DoH so each one feels and works like a unique crafting class. That way, instead of just having to learn one way of crafting we will need to learn 8 crafting methods.

[Zfz]

Please, tell me: how fun is for you to manually crafting more than 100 collectables for scrips + all the side parts because quick synthesis fail rate is unacceptable? If you want to remove macros, first you need to fix this problem.

Please don't think of my opinions as if I only want macros banned and everything else kept the same. I'm talking in very general directions. Any changes would obviously require other parts of the crafting system to change accordingly to provide a good gameplay experience. But nobody's going to sit here and write a 20 page design document.

For non-macro interactive crafting, I was actually thinking more about the end-game products one would sell on the market board. Not the weekly scrip grind. But since you mention that: wouldn't you also prefer the weekly scrip cap to require a lot less crafts, but each craft being more interesting? I think the reason we end up with such excessive number of crafts is exactly because they're tuning the numbers with automation in mind.

The 5.1 overhaul includes a review to quick synth, too.

Not saying that's exactly what they will do, but I would prefer if things move in that direction instead of just being a weekly Netflix+macro session.

[Nabril]

Personally I find these unfun:

• Relying on luck even with theoretical best gear and rotation: this only leads to frustration.
• Relying on gear but once you invest the tens of millions it's all just macro crafting: this is boring.

I really hope we get a good design for end-game crafting. End-game for crafters shouldn't end when you get that 5% meld completed. Macro crafting should be non-existent in the end-game. The best items, most coveted products, should all require actual understanding of your rotation and a stat build to go with that rotation. And to remove macros from the end-game market supply chain, some new mechanics need to be built into crafting.

Otherwise crafting will forever just be a hurdle to making gil. One that can be easily overcome by just copy-pasting builds and macros from the Internet and spending time activating those macros.

How hard is it to do it by hand? Not hard at all. I saw a macro on Reddit, read it over, stripped it down, and rebuilt it as my own. I do computer programming as a hobby. How complicated do you really think crafting would be for me? Do you think crafting should be like a raid boss? Require split second timing, mechanics based on situations, and a repair healer pet that you'd have to micromanage in order to keep your durability up so that you could complete the craft before the enrage timer? Because that's what it would take before I'd find crafting complicated.

Is that what you want? How far would you be willing to go to remove my macros? Because it really would require making crafting operate like a raid boss. Just keep that in mind.

[Zfz]

Is that what you want? How far would you be willing to go to remove my macros? Because it really would require making crafting operate like a raid boss. Just keep that in mind.

Dynamic events with penalties to Quality. Macros cannot react to events and hence it can be tuned such that a human player can easily respond to those events for 100% HQ while macros mostly end up with low HQ percentages.

[Nabril]

Dynamic events with penalties to Quality. Macros cannot react to events and hence it can be tuned such that a human player can easily respond to those events for 100% HQ while macros mostly end up with low HQ percentages.

So you do what it to be like a raid boss. Do macros bother you that much? It wouldn't make crafting more "interesting" or exciting- it would simply make it more tedious and expensive each time you responded incorrectly before a timer ran out. Unless you had a single second to respond to each new "crisis", it still wouldn't be complicated. It would only be to ban macros (which you insisted wasn't your goal, but obviously is).

Hell, if you want fun and complicated, add algebra into the equation. Make us do quick math in our heads. Yes, before you ask, I actually WOULD enjoy that.

[Zfz]

So you do what it to be like a raid boss.

Calm down. Dynamic events doesn't mean raid boss. It can be very simple events that just require some familiarity with your crafting actions so you choose the right response.

I don't understand why you're even talking about timer running out. Crafting is turn based. Why are you even talking about seconds and timers?

[Nyvara]

Dynamic events with penalties to Quality. Macros cannot react to events and hence it can be tuned such that a human player can easily respond to those events for 100% HQ while macros mostly end up with low HQ percentages.

Oh god I can see it now. You're doing carpentry you get a message "Your Tie has been caught in the band saw! Tap space repeatedly to escape!"