Please Remove the Inactivity Timer

[Kenky]

Common misconceptions

"The Inactivity Timer is meant to stop people owning several plots"
Wrong, but only by a technicality standpoint. The Inactivity timer was not meant to discourage or punish / penalize people having multiple plots. Just ensuring that they need to enter every plot once every month to maintain ownership. The timer itself originally was to ensure that, regardless of the player fluctuation, That there would still be availability On top of that, players that own multiple plots are from before the housing rework. Meaning they got those houses legitimately and played by the rules and systems they had at the time. SE can't do anything about it, as it would be deemed unfair for them to rip the houses the players earned away from them. No exceptions.

"The Inactivity timer is meant to stop overcrowding"
That's OUR fault, not SEs. They've tried time and time again to get us to spread out and, frankly, we just spit in their face. Nothing much can be done when people are stubborn.

"Housing is for everyone"
Also wrong. While yes, everyone deserves the right to have a go at housing, not everyone is going to GET a housing plot. The Housing Plots need to remain a finite resource in order to keep a demand. If everyone could get one, then there goes a major gil-sink for the game. It's doing its job. What people seem to enjoy ignoring is the apartments out there for people to own a house.

And before anyone says "Apartments aren't houses" or they're not proper instanced housing? Stop being picky. Yeah, you may not get every system with an apartment, but apartments don't auto-demo, they're permanent and about 3/4 the size of a Small (interior at least). For the price you're asked for its purchase, it's a pretty great deal. For everything else, just join an FC and get permissions to grow / water plants. Boom. There you go. All of the systems at your disposal.

[Shougun]

Due to the limited state of the wards and the purpose of the neighborhood system I think it would be unwise to remove the inactivity timer.. However I do think your house should go into an instanced space (with your whole house, inside and out) rather than losing the house. You'd lose your place in the ward but not your house, because their purpose is defeated by inactive houses.

"Housing is for everyone"
Also wrong. While yes, everyone deserves the right to have a go at housing, not everyone is going to GET a housing plot.

It should be (for everyone, strongly imo). Like Wildstar- the best mmo housing I've ever seen and probably the sole reason it lasted as long as it did, also imo lol, but other mmorpgs do this too- even WoW, though technically the ability to customize is significantly lower in WoW compared to FFXIV..

Though I do believe FFXIV might find a way to give everyone a space, a large space (given time/upgrades) even, and add another gil sink opportunity while still dodge changing the housing system in the idea of basically making an airship Garrison (WoW's house, which is more of a node based concept with a few slots to "decorate"). Since they're nodes it would take a lot less information (than a house, even compared to an apartment), and would be useful to both housing owners and not. As well it seems your point on people not decorating them could be addressed in the idea that the node is more of an auto decorate feature, like in skyrim where you buy a theme and it does the rest for you.

The Housing Plots need to remain a finite resource in order to keep a demand. If everyone could get one, then there goes a major gil-sink for the game. It's doing its job. What people seem to enjoy ignoring is the apartments out there for people to own a house.

A major gil sink would not go away, it's possible it wouldn't even be reduced and might (should..) even grow (though it wouldn't vanish entirely either way). If SE has a shirt that is rare ex (can't be sold or traded) and they limit the shirt to 500 a month (or total even) they've reduced their own gil sink (assuming demand is high, supply limited and fixed, non-trade able/sell-able, and price is fixed- in that scenario you'd want to produce more shirts to sell more of them because people want to buy it). Allow everyone to buy the shirt, the gil sink will be greater. People want a house to want a house, want a shirt to wear a shirt, get a mount to have that mount. Now there is the whole price reduction (devaluation) over time mechanic, so technically you'd need more people buying then lost by going around that system (assuming devaluation prices are ignored, if devaluation price mechanic is maintained somehow then the gil sink is definitely going to be stronger). Also the more people in the housing system potentially more people buying from the market, meaning a larger gil sink (because there are taxes on the market board). So it's entirely possible your gil sink becomes much larger. Not only that but more people who can buy seasonal items off the mogshop meaning more money for FF.

And before anyone says "Apartments aren't houses" or they're not proper instanced housing? Stop being picky. Yeah, you may not get every system with an apartment, but apartments don't auto-demo, they're permanent and about 3/4 the size of a Small (interior at least). For the price you're asked for its purchase, it's a pretty great deal. For everything else, just join an FC and get permissions to grow / water plants. Boom. There you go. All of the systems at your disposal.

Apartments are not houses, in the context of features, and as you detail later in your own post (showing that there are differences, they're not the same). Also no I wont stop calling them that way or allowing/defending people to be picky about it, at least until more is added to the feature set which very well may be coming. People are allowed to push SE to improve their housing system, which is where of the desires to make instanced house(s) come from. People are not required to be satisfied with a system, though of course they shouldn't be threatening/yelling SE- just letting them know they're not happy with X. You're allowed to leave of course but should avoid dangling the sub like it's a blackmail tool, rather just say "I'm leaving because I found X game which did this, I liked Y, and may come back if Z improves"- which while annoying to players who will just say "can I have your gil?" or shrug it is important info for SE to see where hiccups may be found. Of course vs "I'm going to keep playing but the entire time I play I'm going to threaten my sub like we're in an abusive relationship". That's the point anyways, of the forums, to leave feedback.

It's true the apartment wont demolish but none of the houses in FFXIV should demolish (given an instanced full feature house system like other mmos employ, wards can remain limited), though to Vidu's point they should be moved off the open ward system and into their own instanced space if they're not used after a certain amount of time (to keep the ward alive). I would like to protect the wards for people who like them, though their existence is not really important to me personally when discussing optimal housing experience as I visit the wards every day and have yet to have an experience worth enough to defend the costs it brings. Like the lack of upgrade-able choices (SE can't easily give people larger yards), sharing space requiring limited number of objects, dealing with other people's weird decorations lol, etc.

[Elamys]

The Housing Plots need to remain a finite resource in order to keep a demand. If everyone could get one, then there goes a major gil-sink for the game. It's doing its job. What people seem to enjoy ignoring is the apartments out there for people to own a house.

Having finite plots actually makes housing an extremely inefficient gil sink. Especially since it's the only gil sink in the game.

When all the plots are used up, how else is that gil being removed from circulation? People won't stop buying housing in the game if it was accessible to everyone, they just wouldn't buy it for as much - and right now, that extra gil they're spending due to demand isn't going to the server and being removed from the economy, it's going to another player; ergo, it's not an actual gil sink.

[Floortank]

If everyone could get one, then there goes a major gil-sink for the game.

That's a strange take, considering how much gil would be removed from circulation if everyone who wanted a house could buy one, and also considering how much demand for furnishings and externals would go up. The furnishing market was pretty slow before Shadowbringers and went gonzo with the first wave of WOWfugees after BFA tanked.

[Vahlnir]

That's a strange take, considering how much gil would be removed from circulation if everyone who wanted a house could buy one, and also considering how much demand for furnishings and externals would go up. The furnishing market was pretty slow before Shadowbringers and went gonzo with the first wave of WOWfugees after BFA tanked.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what they're going on about. Seems like some questionable logic. You are right. Having MORE houses available would actually remove gil from the economy. As of right now people are simply hanging onto it or buying other things which doesn't do anything but shift gil from one person's pocket to another. This game lacks proper gil sinks. Housing could be one of their greatest and most efficient sinks but SE went and limited itself instead.

[Kenky]

That's a strange take, considering how much gil would be removed from circulation if everyone who wanted a house could buy one, and also considering how much demand for furnishings and externals would go up. The furnishing market was pretty slow before Shadowbringers and went gonzo with the first wave of WOWfugees after BFA tanked.

I never said the gil-sink was efficient. On top of that, if everyone could get a house then yes, all of the housing items would be in more demand, meaning a higher price. But when people find that out, they'll flood the market with housing items, tanking the price into uselessness.

It's one of the few Gil-sinks that are actually in the game that can actually have a decent go at chipping away at the monoliths that is player funds.

But another caveat. If housing was openly allowed to all (And, for the sake of this example, go with anothers recommendation of simply giving everyone an apartment for free) then there goes.. In fact, lets do some math.
For examples sake, say Balmung has 10,000 players concurrently. All of them not owning a house or apartment.
Apartments are currently at 400K gil. A rather modest sum to most, but a mere drop to others.
Then they make the switch and everyone gets an apartment, instead of buying them.

Congratulations, you've just ensured that 4,000,000,000 gil was just kept in the games economy by that choice (And that's just Apartments, think of the number if it were smalls / meds / larges.). On one server alone. You can guess just how much of an issue that could be when SE is trying to price things to accomodate the masses. On top of (going with another recommendaton. Gil-taxing on housing) that large gil still being in the system means the Tax% of housing and apartments would be astronomically higher than it SHOULD be.

And lastly, for housing to -BE- an efficient gil-sink (by SEs standards at least), then there needs to be a limited number of them so people would try to throw as much gil as they can at it. Or prioritize getting a house over doing missions or FATEs or gathering / crafting. Ultimately lowering the gil/hour people make because they're pre-occupied in something that doesn't give them anything and instead, takes it away. Auctions would be the better call for gil-sink, but I've already gone over the minefield of issues that particular "suggestion" gets in another thread, so I don't care to repeat myself. All I'll say is that it's easily abused, just like the current system.

EDIT: Forgot to mention. If there's a limited resource, it ensures a sense of urgency when a plot opens up or becomes vacant, ensuring that people who want the house will go to it (on average, at least).

[Elamys]

And lastly, for housing to -BE- an efficient gil-sink (by SEs standards at least), then there needs to be a limited number of them so people would try to throw as much gil as they can at it.

I'm sorry, I think there's some misunderstanding on what a gil sink is. It has nothing to do with anything that moves gil from player to player. A gil sink takes gil out of the game completely. You "pay the game." When you buy a housing plot or an apartment, that gil is completely removed from the game. It's gone. There doesn't "need to be a limited number" of them for people to buy them, beyond the extremely small amount of players who won't buy something others can get.

Because, again, having extra money to "throw at" buying the plot doesn't make the gil sink work. The plot is a fixed price that only goes down as it remains unpurchased, and the only reason the prices goes down right now is due to the random timer, before it was always at max price. A medium grade 1 plot is 20 mil maximum and will only every be 20 mil maximum. Having 40 mil won't increase my chances of getting it. It won't get me extra stuff. If I spent 40 mil on a medium plot, then that means I probably spent 20 mil on the plot itself and gave 20 mil to someone so I could relocate there. Which means 20 mil was actually removed from the economy, and 20 mil went to another player.

How many players are fabulously wealthy, but can't buy a plot, and therefore have nothing to invest that gil into?

I get it's in vogue to hate on WoW around here, but it does have a good gil sink model with the Black Market Auction House and a number of very expensive mounts and minions, like the brutosaur. The stuff on the BMAH is limited, but things like the brutosaur are not. At most they might be gated behind a reputation. There's a wide enough variety of them now that most people can find at least one thing they want to strive for, and they don't have to worry about the number being limited.

[Kenky]

Housing needs to be limited to ensure there's a demand. Meaning people would be more inclined to pay the plot cost, regardless of what the cost was. That's what I was getting at. If you read the full post, especially regarding the recommendation on "auctions", then you'd have a better take on it.

So long as there is a demand, SE can jack up the pricing on all plots and people would still go out of their way to get one. That's how much worth and weight the community put on a bunch of code that has no real benefit (outside of FC ownership) beside growing onions.

[Edax]

Housing needs to be limited to ensure there's a demand.

Since there will always be a demand regardless, there's little reason to try and ensure the demand.

That's how much worth and weight the community put on a bunch of code that has no real benefit (outside of FC ownership) beside growing onions.

Player engagement is the most important benefit of which houses do provide in a practical sense. Scarcity isn't the prime cause of the demand (and if it was that would be a really shallow reason spend gil).

[Vahlnir]

Housing needs to be limited to ensure there's a demand. Meaning people would be more inclined to pay the plot cost, regardless of what the cost was. That's what I was getting at. If you read the full post, especially regarding the recommendation on "auctions", then you'd have a better take on it.

So long as there is a demand, SE can jack up the pricing on all plots and people would still go out of their way to get one. That's how much worth and weight the community put on a bunch of code that has no real benefit (outside of FC ownership) beside growing onions.

But you are still missing the point. A higher supply would meet the higher demand, therefore become an actual gil sink which removes gil from the game entirely. There will always be a demand. However, if they keep to their current route, there will never be enough supply...which won't remove gil from the economy. Or it won't remove enough to really matter. Housing should NOT be this limited.