How to go about More Involved DPS Rotations.

[YusiKha]

This is not a thread about whether or not more advanced rotations are what healers need, but how they could be implemented.

So, let’s pretend that we all agree that the best way forwards is for healers to get more complex DPS rotations. Slightly easier than tanks, and affecting their healing or other class subsystems.
Which ways could this be achieved? My thoughts are as follows:

WHM - MP Management
WHM at current is the God of mana efficiency with Thin Air and Assize, as well as the Afflatus Spells and Regen.
This could be expanded upon by making Stone/Glare cost more, but giving them a Water/Osmose Spell that, while weaker, restores MP.
To tie it into healing, maybe Cure2 and Medica1 could also feed the blood lily, but their inherent MP cost would make them further damage sacrifices than the corresponding Afflatus skill.
It could be expanded upon by giving WHM a stance that drained MP but guaranteed Direct Hits. This would also make PIE and SPS more interesting for WHM.

SCH - Self-Buffs & Resources
SCH used to be the king of DoTs, but their healing identity is all about oGCD Skills, which doesn’t really mesh well with an emphasis of ongoing damage. So instead we look at Aetherflow and Strategems.
Scholar could use more ties to the strategising lore identity it has, so I’m thinking more Aetherflow skills that don’t heal, but instead reduce incoming damage while buffing Scholar’s own (makes for more interesting dumps than energy drain). Eye for an Eye as well as Virus are old skills that could make a return as Aetherflows, and Soil could restore a portion of damage taken instead of being flat regen. These skills would give Scholar a ‘Strategem’ buff that increases damage (maybe crit rate for healing too?)
I dunno. Scholar is in a really weird place right now, and doesn’t really tie into its old lore or previous incarnations.

AST - Proc & Weaving Management
AST is currently the movement and weaving king thanks to its 1.5s cast time on Malefic, and needs an involved rotation less than the other healers due to the busywork in managing cards. AST will be the lightest change of the bunch.
2.5s Malefic returns, but so does insta-cast Stella. Combust ticks would have a 50% chance to upgrade Stella into Comet (stacking like ruin4), which deals the same/more than Malefic.
This could be expanded by having held cards giving Malefic an extra effect (maybe MP for Lunar seals, damage for Solar seals, mitigation for Celestial seals?) under the guise of Geomancy spells.

NEXT - DoT Management
We need a 4th healer, and we have 1 GCD focused healer, and 2 oGCD focused healers. DoTs work with GCD healing, and could facilitate a plague doctor, chemist, or biologist type aesthetic.
Multiple DoTs with varying lengths, Thundercloud procs to keep timings variable? Healing GCDs used could contribute to the length or strength of a DoT as a return on the lost damage Spell.

I welcome any feedback people have about these suggestions.

[Raylazer11]

NEXT - DoT Management
We need a 4th healer, and we have 1 GCD focused healer, and 2 oGCD focused healers. DoTs work with GCD healing, and could facilitate a plague doctor, chemist, or biologist type aesthetic.
Multiple DoTs with varying lengths, Thundercloud procs to keep timings variable? Healing GCDs used could contribute to the length or strength of a DoT as a return on the lost damage Spell.

4th Healer...
GCD Kit....
Damage over Time.....
DoTs tied to heals or utility in some form...

Combine that with your suggestion change for SCH's Soil and I'd say thats a solid Timemage kit.

[tesni_g]

I agree that SCH is in a really weird place right now with lore. My first thought for them is that I don't want to see another Aetherflow ability. We already have enough of those and enough ways to spend points. With each new addition, one more thing in our toolkit becomes nonviable, because we can't do it all and something has to give (or not get used).

For SCH, I would really like to see a second dot, perhaps a gcd spell with a cooldown for burst phases. Add a buff to Ruin II for more comfortable weaving, and a proc to watch for either on dot ticks or Broil cast, that adds a potency buff to the next Broil or Ruin II cast. Nothing major, really, just something to watch for. SCH abilities have such a prepared, organized feel to them, so a little RNG would break up the monotony of broil spam.

AST--I'm reluctant giving up a quick malefic for a second nuke. The only intact redeeming features of AST in 5.x are its mobility and weaving. Every direct cast AST has is shorter than the GCD, by a larger margin than the other two healers (Glare, Holy and Broil have a full GCD cast time, and their other direct heals have less breathing room between cast and recast). Without a full rework on AST ability management, there's no room in its kit for another button, and there's especially no room in its rotation for a spell they can't weave.

AST needs a way to throw cards at enemies. It's ridiculous that the Warrior of Light can do everything we've done in the MSQ and we can't figure out how to do that (especially since we "forgot" between SB and ShB). The WoL who mains AST needs a full party of Scions to get anything done. That's.... super powerful. Yeah.

MP management is in a weird place right now. They made MP entirely a personal responsibility for healers, and outside of rezzing or excessive healing, MP is a nonissue for WHM. I am hesitant to drain mana as a dps mechanic, though, because of how much our personal damage output is already determined by the people we play with. If rez locks me out of my burst phase or using abilities, I'm gonna resent somebody.

An mp restraint on core mechanics is a penalty the healer pays for playing with inexperienced/apathetic groups.

I'd like to see that viable water spell, though, and maybe a mechanic that changes the GCD speed (a la Step and Overheated), the WHM can fire off four or five Glares at 1.5 second cast. CLERIC STANCE in any iteration. Plus all the other abilities that have disappeared throughout expansions. And some interactivity between buttons--say, casting Blood Lily during Stance or Temperance debuffs the boss with a small damage vuln up? Something like casting that viable water spell gives a potency buff to casting/refreshing Dia. I'd also love an off global ability that can damage or heal depending on target, on a shortish cooldown. A great prog tool that transforms cleanly into optimized deeps for familiar content.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

I've posted this a bunch of times, but for WHM an intermediate lily step that allows existing moves to be upgraded via a new oGCD would nearly be good enough alongside a useful version of Fluid Aura. It expands the current optimization theory that healing lilies do, but could be applied to damaging spells. Get a 2nd DoT back via upgraded Aero/Dia to (Holy) Tornado, mini misery with upgrade Stone/Glare to (Holy) Quake, redesigned Fluid Aura upgraded to Flood, etc.

Is still easy to introduce players to, can be delayed for needed healing w/o DPS loss because of how long it takes to overcap lilies, can provide additional healing to be palatable to different play styles, can keep WHM tied to the GCD design-wise (most of the upgraded spells/abilities would be GCD based), builds off WHM's added system, and can bridge WHM's old semi-druidic and new holy light priest aesthetics.

[DiznypKC]

I’ve actually been working on a series of redesigns for each of the healers, tailored to their lore. Maybe now is the time to start sharing them.

[Elladie]

I really don't need or want more complex rotations, thanks. I play healers to avoid 'rotations' and I'm very happy with where my SCH main is right now. There is quite enough challenge for me in dealing with huge dungeon pulls and boss mechanics, I don't want 'more complex rotations' to deal with as well. I'm happy to admit being a casual, averagely-skilled player, but so are 80% plus of the players I encounter. Remove demanding mechanics and huge pulls and then, yeah, sure, complex rotation away. At the moment I'm lucky to manage a few AOW each pull in between watching the tank's HP plummet and panicking about the BLM who just stood in Bad.

[DiznypKC]

I really don't need or want more complex rotations, thanks. I play healers to avoid 'rotations' and I'm very happy with where my SCH main is right now. There is quite enough challenge for me in dealing with huge dungeon pulls and boss mechanics, I don't want 'more complex rotations' to deal with as well. I'm happy to admit being a casual, averagely-skilled player, but so are 80% plus of the players I encounter. Remove demanding mechanics and huge pulls and then, yeah, sure, complex rotation away. At the moment I'm lucky to manage a few AOW each pull in between watching the tank's HP plummet and panicking about the BLM who just stood in Bad.

I’m fairly certain the OP’s idea behind this is to give the classes something that’s seemingly more complex, but in reality wouldn’t affect the gameplay enough to where it was no longer accessible to players like yourself.

Think of it as the DPS “rotation” as more engaging instead of complex.

Plus, this is all theoretical and would never be instituted since none of us actually work for the game. So, we’re really just having a bit of fun, and you don’t have to worry at all about it. Just enjoy your main and leave us to our imaginings.

[YusiKha]

I really don't need or want more complex rotations, thanks. I play healers to avoid 'rotations' and I'm very happy with where my SCH main is right now.

This is not a thread about whether or not more advanced rotations are what healers need, but how they could be implemented.
So, let’s pretend that we all agree that the best way forwards is for healers to get more complex DPS rotations...

I appreciate you reading the first two sentences of my post.

This is an attempt to add as few skills/traits possible, while also increasing the skill ceiling for healers at top level of healing so it's more than just "Stand Still, Refresh DoT, and spam Nuke".
While I understand that many healers don't like the responsibilities of doing damage as well as healing, they are free to ignore any additional DPS skills like they already do.

[GrimGale]

I don't think healers need more complex dps rotations, but rather new skills and traits expanding on their secondary identities.

In WHM's case it would translate to more skills that do damage and heal at the same time. oGCD's to heal or damage to weave with healing or damaging spells.
WHM's identity of the nuker would benefit from a playstyle that weaves damage and healing together. No utility translates to huge personal dps.

AST doesn't need more dps tools, but rather new ways to expand on her buffs. Maybe a revamp of royal road, time dilation and new card mechanics so that the player truly feels an impact everytime he draws a card.

SCH would be the debuffer/enfeebler of the three. Have its ocd's no longer consume AF but rather fey gauge. Then use AF to apply debuffs that either reduce damage done or increase damage taken to a single target. Like a Scan ability that'd reveal weakpoints.

[Wawachume]

I also play healers to avoid "rotation", but I define that as complexity derived from arbitrary interactions between abilities. I'm happy to have more damage skills as long as my gameplay is still more about problem-solving than about trying to manage my own spells and cast them in the right order or whatever. DoT and debuff management is something I would enjoy, because it gives me a job to do and not a rotation to manage.

SCH would be the debuffer/enfeebler of the three. Have its ocd's no longer consume AF but rather fey gauge. Then use AF to apply debuffs that either reduce damage done or increase damage taken to a single target. Like a Scan ability that'd reveal weakpoints.

I'd rather do it the other way around and have the debuffs use the faerie gauge. Heals are more critical for a healer than debuffs, and I'd rather not have them gated behind a resource that takes as long to build as the faerie gauge.