Tank Fixes

[Enuriel]

So everyone is discussing how to diversify tanks more, but no one is talking about how
we are tanks and why our gauge is used for a damage burst phase. Except for Paladin which spends it's gauge on defensive abilities.

So right now paladin is the only tank class that is slightly different from the other tanks. Only due to Sheltron, Cover and Intervene which are spenders for Oath Gauge. I get that if as tanks we don't deal a decent amount of damage then out in the field soloing mobs will take longer but hey that's the trade off for being able to survive longer. Now i'm not saying nerf tank damage into the ground, but remove the burst phase from tanks and add flavor gauge spenders.

Here are some ideas for Quick fixes that would make all tank jobs more enjoyable.

*NOTE* This is not an end all be all change. Just some ideas.
*NOTE* all recast timers should remain unchanged. Just enhance the abilities.

Paladin

• Clemency - Remove from GCD, Make instant cast, still breaks combo. Cost 3000MP
• Sheltron - Increase base duration to 6 secs and enhanced to 8 secs. Cost 25 Oath

Warrior

• Raw Intuition - separate from Nascent Flash. Increase duration to 8 secs. Cost 25 Beast Gauge. Overridden by Nascent Flash
• Nascent Flash - Separate from Raw Intuition. Increase duration to 20 secs. Cost 50 Beast Gauge. Change damage reduction to increases parry rate by 50% while 100% of damage dealt is converted to HP.
• Steel Cyclone - No longer upgraded to Decimate. off Global cool-down, recast time 60 secs. at 72 This upgrades to Chaotic Cyclone.
• Fell Cleave - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Decimate - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Chaotic Cyclone - off Global 60 sec recast. everything else remains untouched.
• Onslaught - remove gauge cost. Recast 30 secs.
• Inner Release - Ignore Cool down timer on Fell Cleave/Decimate. Rest remains unchanged.

Dark Knight

• The Blackest Night - Learned at level 30, 15% HP shield. Cost 3000MP
• Enhanced Blackest Night - Learned at level 70, 25% HP shield (Current iteration)
• Abyssal Drain - Remains learned at 56. Combo to Unleash. Restores 15% of damage dealt as HP.
• Stalwart Soul - learned at 72, combo finisher to abyssal drain. Combo bonus: Restores MP. Increases Blood Gauge by 20.
• Bloodspiller - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Quietus - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Edge/Flood of Darkness - remove from game. Don't need 2 ways to keep Dark side active.
• Edge/Flood of Shadow - Deals 500 potency attack to primary target then 300 potency to all mobs in a straight line.
• Blood Weapon - Add skill-speed boost back onto skill.
• Dread Spikes - Wraps user in abyssal energy returning 15% of damage taken as HP. Duration 8 seconds. Cost 25 Gauge.
• Carve and Spit. Second combo finisher to Syphon Strike, combo potency 450. Adds bleed effect (90 potency dot) duration 20 seconds.
• Living Dead - Reduce healing needed to 50%.
• Delirium - Really don't know how to fix this. Don't want a wasted skill, or a skill that's identical to Inner Release.

Gunbreaker
Remains unchanged. I don't know enough about this job. Unlocked but never played.

[RadicalPesto]

An offensive gauge spender with an effective cooldown of 7 seconds is the last thing Paladin needs. It would effectively make players avoid Sheltron and add so much empty APM as to make Dark Arts seem like a good mechanic.

[MurasakiAeda]

An offensive gauge spender with an effective cooldown of 7 seconds is the last thing Paladin needs. It would effectively make players avoid Sheltron and add so much empty APM as to make Dark Arts seem like a good mechanic.

I feel like removing Dark Arts was a waste, could they not have improved upon it? Like increase it's recast time to something higher like 15s and changes to which abilities could be enhanced by it. There was just too many moves which could be enhanced by DA in SB. Dark Arts could also enhance defensive abilities again. I feel that the issue with DA in Stormblood was how frequently one had to use it, not so much the ability.

[MariaArvana]

I feel like removing Dark Arts was a waste, could they not have improved upon it? Like increase it's recast time to something higher like 15s and changes to which abilities could be enhanced by it. There was just too many moves which could be enhanced by DA in SB. Dark Arts could also enhance defensive abilities again. I feel that the issue with DA in Stormblood was how frequently one had to use it, not so much the ability.

At the crux of its core, DA was a 140 potency OGCD. It enhanced every offensive move basically the same way; giving it 140 potency.
Flood of Shadow/Edge of Shadow operate the same way that DA did at the crux of its core; using an OGCD that pushes out a certain amount of extra potency. Only FoS & EoS cost way more, thus solving DA's issue of being required to essentially be spammed.

If DA were to ever come back again, it would need an entirely new effect; as EoS & FoS have taken over its old role.

As far as the OP's changes, you'd have to re-work WARs entire offensive kit if you want to make FC & Decimate OGCD, as you'd utterly neuter IR which composes a ton of WAR's damage. Also 10% all damage reduction for 6s >>> 50% parry. When they're making a bunch of steps to letting CDs be all encompassing, creating or changing CDs to only affect 50% of damage types (only physical or only magic) is a step backwards.

[Enuriel]

An offensive gauge spender with an effective cool down of 7 seconds is the last thing Paladin needs. It would effectively make players avoid Sheltron and add so much empty APM as to make Dark Arts seem like a good mechanic.

Your correct. Had just woken up and wanted to get something posted that i have been thinking about for a couple weeks, and that was a last minute addition.

DRK shoulda been built around taking up blood in place of HP as a resource, while under dark side. (due to the abusive nature of this, since tanks barely need healing, all -hp/blood effects do more dmg if blood is the resource spent.)
(Also DRK should have had super bolide. Sacrifice all HP to become invincible. Throw up TBN right before, so u dont die to server tick at 1hp.)
In place of their pet on a long cool down, it should be a "death Grip/pull" that works on bosses, to cheese mechanics. But since its a DPS loss, the cheese better be worth it.
(Still put on a long CD, so it cant be spammed)

And i think that is where the problem is with tanks now. It's all about DPS gain and not about being able to mitigate more damage. In-vulnerabilities should never be about increasing personal damage. it should 100% be about saving the party from a wipe by allowing the tank to ignore a mechanic or two while allowing everyone to push their DPS. After all we are tanks and that is part of the job description.

As for tank DPS, firstly we are tanks and should be focused more on defensive abilities while contributing to group damage. Which i think a vast majority of people do not like, because i have heard from several people that think tanks should still be doing a lot more damage. I think the current numbers are generally where tanks should be. A little bit higher then a healers output, but far lower then a pure damage dealer. However, i disagree with GNB and PLD being top DPS while DRK and WAR are bottom of the barrel. I think it'd be fine if WAR and GNB were the damage dealing tanks while DRK and PLD were the mitigation tanks.

As for threat, currently it is so mind-numbing and extremely easy. If you lose threat (except in very rare and few situations) you are simply tanking wrong or forgot your tank stance. Part of what made tanking interesting for me was keeping threat off really good players while balancing mitigation and damage. Currently one move pretty much seals the deal. Which is fine i suppose it allows the player to focus on other aspects like when to use their "burst" ability. Sadly i still see lots of tanks not properly using cool downs opting instead to continue their burst.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

And i think that is where the problem is with tanks now. It's all about DPS gain and not about being able to mitigate more damage. In-vulnerabilities should never be about increasing personal damage. it should 100% be about saving the party from a wipe by allowing the tank to ignore a mechanic or two while allowing everyone to push their DPS. After all we are tanks and that is part of the job description.

As for tank DPS, firstly we are tanks and should be focused more on defensive abilities while contributing to group damage. Which i think a vast majority of people do not like, because i have heard from several people that think tanks should still be doing a lot more damage. I think the current numbers are generally where tanks should be. A little bit higher then a healers output, but far lower then a pure damage dealer. However, i disagree with GNB and PLD being top DPS while DRK and WAR are bottom of the barrel. I think it'd be fine if WAR and GNB were the damage dealing tanks while DRK and PLD were the mitigation tanks.

So first tank invuln comments, that's like say healers should prioritise GCD healing and save oGCD heals for just in case, lmao not gonna happen mate. Big bad tankbuster gonna happen, you use tank invulns like you would Sentinel, Vengeance, Rampart, or whatever CD, at the end of the day it's still a defensive CD and should be treated as such, none of this amatuer level, it should be an emergency button crap.

So you say Tanks should focus more on defensives, when we have more than than enough defensives to complete all savage fights, and ultimates sync'd down at 70, so no tanks don't need to focus more on defensives when we already have enough. I also disagree with with your assessment of the tanks ranking in damage. As they are now, are mostly fine, Burst damage type jobs should never overtake flat damage type jobs in damage with the exception of killing a fight at the end of a burst phase. So that does put PLD and GNB ahead of DRK and WAR outside of kill time.

[shao32]

I don't see how this will make DRK and WAR feel different if delirium is still a thing, WAR gaining more oGCD and both having his fell cleaves working the same, this will makthem both feel even more copy pasted.

snip

Edge and DA are not the same, not even close, the only thing that have in common is they are the primary MP spender.

DA old design could have way more applications and mechanics that could be build around it, edge no, DA use to allow us to have a dinamic combo system, on Aoe situations works as a HP drain more that damage and it could be a nice partner to have with edge but nooooo the Devs just ignore DRK feedback like always, want more MP options so DA wasn't so spamy? Don't worry we remove it and we add edge instead, more combos? Pffff you don't need that, here get inner release instead and stare at the same combo again and again and again now with way less oGCD in middle.

Removing DA was a completi waste, such skill with so many ways to work around substituted by a generic oGCD.

[MariaArvana]

I don't see how this will make DRK and WAR feel different if delirium is still a thing, WAR gaining more oGCD and both having his fell cleaves working the same, this will makthem both feel even more copy pasted.



Edge and DA are not the same, not even close, the only thing that have in common is they are the primary MP spender.

DA old design could have way more applications and mechanics that could be build around it, edge no, DA use to allow us to have a dinamic combo system, on Aoe situations works as a HP drain more that damage and it could be a nice partner to have with edge but nooooo the Devs just ignore DRK feedback like always, want more MP options so DA wasn't so spamy? Don't worry we remove it and we add edge instead, more combos? Pffff you don't need that, here get inner release instead and stare at the same combo again and again and again now with way less oGCD in middle.

Removing DA was a completi waste, such skill with so many ways to work around substituted by a generic oGCD.

On bosses, your primary use of of DA was to:
Buff Soul eater.
Buff Siphon Strike.
Buff C&S.
Buff DP (depending)
Buff BS.

Heck, they even removed the DA effect from DM because Yoshi-P knew that the very concept of how they've designed this game would make most serious DRk players outright ignore DM's DA effect due to it being a straight dps loss.

Notice the similarity between them all? Adding extra damage by spending MP. You know what OGCD(s) DRK has in SHB that does damage by spending MP?
My point is that DA's primary purpose in SB has been replaced by another OGCD that also fixed the downside to most people's complaints regarding DA. If they wanted to bring DA back, give it a new effect thats more meaningful, as in SB it's primary function and use during bosses was literally a 140 potency OGCD, which EoS & FoS have nicely fixed and replaced.

[shao32]

On bosses, your primary use of of DA was to:
Buff Soul eater.
Buff Siphon Strike.
Buff C&S.
Buff DP (depending)
Buff BS.

Heck, they even removed the DA effect from DM because Yoshi-P knew that the very concept of how they've designed this game would make most serious DRk players outright ignore DM's DA effect due to it being a straight dps loss.

Notice the similarity between them all? Adding extra damage by spending MP. You know what OGCD(s) DRK has in SHB that does damage by spending MP?
My point is that DA's primary purpose in SB has been replaced by another OGCD that also fixed the downside to most people's complaints regarding DA. If they wanted to bring DA back, give it a new effect thats more meaningful, as in SB it's primary function and use during bosses was literally a 140 potency OGCD, which EoS & FoS have nicely fixed and replaced.

And my point is they choose they laziest option because they are short minded.

DA use to have several uses in the past, one of the bringing combo diversity, the skill himself was pretty important for the job identity, I compare DA to his HW version too in mind and she skill have different purposes on aoe situations so they are not the same, comparing one thing with only a part of the other is not a good way to make comparations.
,SB DA design was a mistake in some ways yes but remove the entire mechanic because they have a problem with the rates? They forget what the skill use to bring? It could be a nice partner with edge so darkside wasn't on auto keep mode making the new gauge more useless that the lillis of SB, they could use it to bring more combos as we asked like the HW ones instead of locking us with the soul eater combo all day, they could use it to bring different effects as you toggle his uses with edge but no.

Removing DA was lazy, short minded and unimaginative way to do things, they don't have any idea how to design DRK and that's why we have all this drama around him.