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  1. #1
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ala Mhigo
    Posts
    8,321
    Character
    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    (Though it's worth noting that from a story perspective, it seems to be written as if we can't teleport freely, and stay on the First throughout the game. The ability to return to the Source whenever we like is more of a gameplay convenience.)
    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTofu View Post
    Bold part, that is exactly my thought as well the way Exarch welcome and explains the situation. That was the impression I got, I am stuck here physically as well and due to the gameplay world. It feels like entirely a new game in the new world which is why we have mogstation story skip... Probably no relation to the source until later in the expansion... (maybe)... For now we get to go back to play other quests/classes/friends etc.

    Thanks for the explanation to both of you.
    That's not the feeling I got from the Exarch's explanation - he made a very real point of explaining the aetheryte that our 'aetheric link' to the Source is still there, faint, but enough to follow back to the Source via normal teleportation methods (and thus by reverse from the Source to the First in turn). This is also how the portal in the Ocular works and why we can use it to go back and forth at will while the Exarch and the Archons can't - the beacon in Syrcus Trench back on the Source is being looked after by a Son of Saint Coinach who is keeping vigil over it and functions as a sort of gate keeper accordingly.

    After all, remember at the end of SB's story when Krile discovered that the Archons' aether trails suddenly ended abruptly, as they were literally severed by the Exarch's call spell, thus there is no way they can teleport back as there is no 'link' back to their bodies remaining, where as we still have a connection to the Source. So hence we can travel to and from the Source and the First at will while they cannot.

    This is also how Feol Ul is able to handle our retainer tasks on the First, as he's following our aether trail between the Source and the First (presumedly the Mail Moogles on the First are doing the same thing).

    It may seem like mere excuse plotting for what is mechanically gameplay elements, but the fact remains the story made a point of repeatedly mentioning exactly how we can travel between the Source and the First whenever and however often we like, so despite any evidence to suggest the contrary, I do not believe that we are story wise stuck in the First like the Archons are, and can travel freely between the two worlds at will.
    (7)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 09-09-2019 at 03:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rannie View Post
    Aaaaannnd now I just had a mental image of Lahabrea walking into a store called Bodies R Us and trying on different humans.... >.<

    Lahabrea: hn too tall... tooo short.... Juuuuuust right.
    Venat was right.

  2. #2
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    973
    Character
    Miyo Mohzolhi
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    That's not the feeling I got from the Exarch's explanation - he made a very real point of explaining the aetheryte that our 'aetheric link' to the Source is still there, faint, but enough to follow back to the Source via normal teleportation methods (and thus by reverse from the Source to the First in turn). This is also how the portal in the Ocular works and why we can use it to go back and forth at will while the Exarch and the Archons can't - the beacon in Syrcus Trench back on the Source is being looked after by a Son of Saint Coinach who is keeping vigil over it and functions as a sort of gate keeper accordingly.
    Yeah, the Exarch does mention in dialogue that "in theory" (his words) you should be able to go back and forth between Source and First due to the "aetheric trail" you have. The aetheryte is one way, but it does seem like the Exarch has more confidence in the Ocular portal route. Either way, the story is clear that you can go between worlds as you please, and that while your primary responsibilities in Shadowbringers is on the First, you can also head back to the Source to do whatever you need to do in the meantime.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,079
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    I do not believe that we are story wise stuck in the First like the Archons are, and can travel freely between the two worlds at will.
    My reasons for thinking this mainly come from some things said at the end of the game.

    When farewelling the Scions in the post-credits scene as we prepare to return to the Source, they talk like the Exarch would have to summon us again to get us back to the First - joking about him bringing us to the city and not dropping us in the forest next time. Then he has to specifically prepare the portal for us to use.

    For that matter, we shouldn't need the portal at all when we can just freely teleport between worlds whenever we like!

    And on returning to Tataru at the end... well, firstly she's surprised that you're back, because we haven't been gone as long as she expected, so apparently there was time dilation at work (despite part of the "freely teleporting" handwave being that time was currently synced up between the two worlds). But it also suggests that it's the first time she's seen or heard ftom us since we left, other than getting a message via Feo Ul - indicating we either never went back to the Source, or didn't bother to drop back in and let her know we were okay. And I'd rather assume we didn't/couldn't get back. Again, needing Feo to take a message suggests we're stuck there and can't just drop back to Mor Dhona to say hi.

    Additionally, if you go back to the First and talk to the Scions post-game, they remark that they didn't know you'd come back to the First - as established in the earlier scene, the Exarch was supposed to let them know when he was summoning you again.

    So, all those things together, I assume the story was written as if we were unable to freely travel. Presumably there are other benefits to being physically teleported there - perhaps we need a physical body to absorb the Light - but I don't think interworld teleportation is supposed to be one of them. The ability to do so is written into the story, but it feels like it doesn't fit the rest of the evidence.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Rocl's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Final Call of Warcraft XIV
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    761
    Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    And on returning to Tataru at the end... well, firstly she's surprised that you're back, because we haven't been gone as long as she expected, so apparently there was time dilation at work (despite part of the "freely teleporting" handwave being that time was currently synced up between the two worlds). But it also suggests that it's the first time she's seen or heard ftom us since we left, other than getting a message via Feo Ul - indicating we either never went back to the Source, or didn't bother to drop back in and let her know we were okay. And I'd rather assume we didn't/couldn't get back. Again, needing Feo to take a message suggests we're stuck there and can't just drop back to Mor Dhona to say hi.
    This particular point can actually be different depending on optional small talk, actually (or is addressed entirely, depending on your outlook on such things).
    Should you return to the Source after meeting Feo Ul, Tataru's dialogue does change to indicate she's met Feo Ul and that you should go back to the First and let her worry about the Source. The quest in question, "Travelers of Norvrandt" actually changes a multitude of small talks! The Scions have kept many of their allies in the loop regarding the missing Scions, it seems.

    Tataru, Matoya, Lambertient and Arenvald all change after this; Lamberteint doesn't quite believe the Scions are in another world, Arenvald worries for Alphinaud, and Matoya asks us to tell Shtola to come visit when she returns.(I do wonder why they've been updating Lambertient since 4.4...) Of those four people, three of them have the same small talk after completing 5.0's MSQ—Tataru's dialogue, however changes. For clarity's sake, here are Tataru's 3 states:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tataru, beginning of Shadowbringers
    Forename, y-you're back! Have you already finished saving the world!?
    ...Not quite? Well, if you need to get back to the First, it should be a simple matter of touching the beacon. It's at the same place we found it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tataru, after meeting Feo Ul
    Forename! I was going about my business the other day when a feisty little pixie suddenly appeared and gave me a report about your doings!
    It certainly sounds like you have your work cut out for you. So just leave things here to me and focus on getting things done in the First!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tataru, after defeating Emet-Selch
    Not much to report on our end, Forename. The Eorzean Alliance is still locked in a stalemate with the Empire.
    As ever, in the Archons' absence, I'm keeping the ship that is the Scions of the Seventh Dawn sailing smoothly along. I run a tight ship, I do!
    Admittedly, I learned this after I'd personally completed Shadowbringers by way of poking around GarlandTools and the like—but I do have a vague memory of checking in on the Rising Stones before Amaurot to see what, if any, diaogue changed and was amused/happy to see at least Tataru's did while the other Scions in the Stones didn't.

    Another somewhat fun fact, is that the only other time dialogue on the Source changes is after you slay your first Lightwarden, Temulun (Cirina's grandmother) changes her small talk to the following:
    Quote Originally Posted by Temulun
    The light within you shines as brightly as before. More brightly, even. But your journey is far from finished. I shall pray for you.
    Everyone else on the Source, other than those I've mentioned here, just seem to have a flag for whether or not you've completed relevant quests (the lv80 job quests) or Shadowbringers (the more mundane Scions). The citizens of the First seem to have a multitude of states, typically dealing with whether you've restored night to the area they reside in, if the Light's come back, and if it's Lakeland or the Crystarium there's even more nuance... it's honestly surprising and I'm ashamed to say I missed most of the interim steps!
    (6)
    Last edited by Rocl; 09-09-2019 at 06:16 PM.