What job is the highest priority to fix?

[Maero]

Machinist is fine..
Red Mage by far needs the most atm as it is weak AF not sure why none mention that fact, anyways...
DNC also needs some changes implemented followed by Smn i guess? But i do not play smn much so cannot say

[Lambdafish]

instead of nerfing MNKs and potentially breaking the (best) class, why not just buff the other classes?

Because constantly buffing jobs is not balance. Jobs are also balanced against fights, and if we buff SAM to be a higher DPS than MNK then power creep will only make the situation worse.

Potency nerfs won't break MNK, and leaving it be is damaging to overall balance

[MrKusakabe]

I often read complains about Red Mage damage. Why though? From that one thread that used the FFLogs, the difference to the most iconic damage-dealing mage, Black Mage, and the Red Mage is, if I remember correctly, 9%. That sounds absolutely legit. Why?

If RDM gets a buff, people ask why they should play BLM (I compare mages now). If they nerf RDM, then nobody would want to play it. But these 10%~ difference is healthy and sound very reasonable. We Red Mages have so, so many tasty treats and perks (Dualcast is one of these underrated things...! Casting a full spell while running/being mobile!, many weapon skills that do not eat up mana, healing, ressurecting, gapclosers - remember, we are Mages!), and if they change anything, it will come with compensation nerfs. But why fixing something that works? If you want the big numbers only, how about you choosing Black Mage? Or whatever profession is supposedly better?

Sincerely,

[RadicalPesto]

I don't think you understand how no support jobs are supposed to work. You know, lacking support they should be at the top.


Also, a job with no support should do the same rdps or more than a job with support. Not doing so is how we had drg/nin/brd meta for 4 years.

Samurai is the worst class by a very small margin among what is currently by far the most powerful and best balanced of all DPS sub-roles. Needing a couple hundred more rDPS when multiple jobs need over a thousand to be competitive means that, indeed, Samurai is not highest priority, because its nowhere close to being a detriment to its party in the way jobs like Red Mage and Dancer are.

If RDM gets a buff, people ask why they should play BLM (I compare mages now). If they nerf RDM, then nobody would want to play it. But these 10%~ difference is healthy and sound very reasonable. We Red Mages have so, so many tasty treats and perks (Dualcast is one of these underrated things...! Casting a full spell while running/being mobile!, many weapon skills that do not eat up mana, healing, ressurecting, gapclosers - remember, we are Mages!), and if they change anything, it will come with compensation nerfs. But why fixing something that works? If you want the big numbers only, how about you choosing Black Mage? Or whatever profession is supposedly better?

A 10% damage difference is actually so absurdly enormous as to render Red Mage a detriment to any party that brings one for any given content with a serious DPS check. None of Red Mage's perks actually add up to a whole lot in any of the content where class balance matters (Savage and Ultimate), because in practice, Dualcast and Enchanted Reprise are much worse forms of on demand mobility than the tools Black Mage has available for movement phases (Triplecast, Xenoglossy, Enhanced Sharpcast), Verraise requires multiple deaths to become useful utility (at which point, its very unlikely you will have enough DPS to not wipe to enrage), and melee skills not costing mana is meaningless when Black Mage is designed around having an unlimited amount of it.

This isn't a game where a 10% rDPS difference between two jobs in the same role can actually be justified, because it's a game that has been deliberately designed around strict DPS checks, with the current raid tier having harder DPS checks than practically any of the Omega raids did. For a Red Mage to bring damage comparable to a mediocre Black Mage, that Red Mage needs to be in the upper 10% of the best players in the world, and also likely requires a party that actually knows how to optimize their bursts around raid buffs such as Embolden. Red Mage simply speaking is not a good class and will not become one unless the gap between it and Black Mage is, at the least, reduced to half of what it currently is, which will also not actually do anything to invalidate Black Mage's existence, since nobody actually proposes that Red Mage be given the exact same DPS as Black Mage.

[Miminming]

instead of nerfing MNKs and potentially breaking the (best) class, why not just buff the other classes?

Its not only about the balance between job, theres also balance between fight, buffing the other would destroy all end contents to null.

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My priority is:

1. Nerf Monk and BLM, lets stop this power creep here

2. Nin gameplay and SMN gameplay+DPS
Nin gameplay is meh atm, but the number is actually just right, SMN on the other hand CLUNKY and the number is just too low compared to BLM who is on the same role

3. AST gameplay and and ranged+rdm DPS
please make it so the DPS gap between ranged, caster, melee is within 1% total party DPS

4. SAM, honetly gameolay wise its okay compared to NIN and SMN, the number could use some buff but nothing major... IMO

[Rokke]

AST QoL. SHB version feels so incredibly clunky compared to previous xpacs and is not even a potency problem, the class is just unfun to play.

[Lastelli]

I don't think you understand how no support jobs are supposed to work. You know, lacking support they should be at the top.


Also, a job with no support should do the same rdps or more than a job with support. Not doing so is how we had drg/nin/brd meta for 4 years.

What do you mean by "support"? Fflogs now displays rdps, which already attributes dps due to skills like trick attack and brotherhood to the originator of the buff. Defensive support skills like mantra and curing waltz are so niche that they can safely be ignored when it comes to dps balance. Ideally, all melee dps should provide equal rdps.

[ForteNightshade]

instead of nerfing MNKs and potentially breaking the (best) class, why not just buff the other classes?

They tried this back in Heavensward. It eventually caused Bard and Machinist to be so overtuned they rendered Casters completely obsolete for all of Creator and a good portion of Deltascape. In fact, the only reason Summoner gained any ground on Machinist was due to ping issues with the latter. Ironically, they panic buffed Summoner 4.1 to solve the Range problem... only to make it better than Black Mage in every way. Basically, if you just keep buffing jobs, power creep inevitably catches up and you cause more damage than you were trying to solve. Furthermore, lowering Monk's damage by 2-3% wouldn't "break" the class. It simply wouldn't be schooling everyone except Black Mage and Dragoon, both of whom also have tuning issues.

As for the topic at hand. Ninja was absolutely the front runner. With an awful, clunky rotation and abysmal damage in a category with two juggernauts, Ninja bordered on being a dead job. At this stage, Red Mage and Summoner need some serious attention. The only thing keeping them remotely relevant at the moment is having a Raise. They're both getting slaughtered by Black mage—who is pulling anywhere from 1,500 to almost 2,000 rDPS ahead of Red mage. My only concern focusing on them is the very real threat a sizable buff to either (or both) poses to the Range DPS, especially Dancer. They're all hanging on by a thread at this point. If Summoner were buffed close enough to compete with Black Mage, you'll very likely see people abandon Bard, Machinist and Dancer completely.

Frankly, the DPS balance is such a complete mess they need to address it all in one fell swoop, and not wait two or three patches buffing a few jobs at a time.

[Maero]

@ Zedek i get you love Red Mage and how it is but you are not seeing outside the box of just running ex fights or dungeons.
I know a few players who have the same sentiment in that Red Mage is still fun, etc... and is just fine.
But those same people have not yet done level 80 content and are not @ level 80 yet either), it is there where you can get a much clearer picture on just how weak RM is

Radical is on target on what they have said

[Gaethan_Tessula]

All and anything green, please. Healers are dreadfully tedious to play in anything that isn't Savage+ prog, EX+ solo healing, or minimum item level.

As to RDM, sure evening out the rDPS could work. However, giving it support that prevents the party from dying to begin with could contribute too, esp. if it also adds to DPS (Wall/Reflect, Ver-Assize).

I find that jobs are more likely to get straight outclassed when they have no different niches of function. RDM's utility is bad as applied, not on the face of things; as has been said, when you have super tight DPS checks, utility that still results in lowered DPS and eats your GCD's isn't useful utility.