Tank Fixes

[Enuriel]

So everyone is discussing how to diversify tanks more, but no one is talking about how
we are tanks and why our gauge is used for a damage burst phase. Except for Paladin which spends it's gauge on defensive abilities.

So right now paladin is the only tank class that is slightly different from the other tanks. Only due to Sheltron, Cover and Intervene which are spenders for Oath Gauge. I get that if as tanks we don't deal a decent amount of damage then out in the field soloing mobs will take longer but hey that's the trade off for being able to survive longer. Now i'm not saying nerf tank damage into the ground, but remove the burst phase from tanks and add flavor gauge spenders.

Here are some ideas for Quick fixes that would make all tank jobs more enjoyable.

*NOTE* This is not an end all be all change. Just some ideas.
*NOTE* all recast timers should remain unchanged. Just enhance the abilities.

Paladin

• Clemency - Remove from GCD, Make instant cast, still breaks combo. Cost 3000MP
• Sheltron - Increase base duration to 6 secs and enhanced to 8 secs. Cost 25 Oath

Warrior

• Raw Intuition - separate from Nascent Flash. Increase duration to 8 secs. Cost 25 Beast Gauge. Overridden by Nascent Flash
• Nascent Flash - Separate from Raw Intuition. Increase duration to 20 secs. Cost 50 Beast Gauge. Change damage reduction to increases parry rate by 50% while 100% of damage dealt is converted to HP.
• Steel Cyclone - No longer upgraded to Decimate. off Global cool-down, recast time 60 secs. at 72 This upgrades to Chaotic Cyclone.
• Fell Cleave - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Decimate - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Chaotic Cyclone - off Global 60 sec recast. everything else remains untouched.
• Onslaught - remove gauge cost. Recast 30 secs.
• Inner Release - Ignore Cool down timer on Fell Cleave/Decimate. Rest remains unchanged.

Dark Knight

• The Blackest Night - Learned at level 30, 15% HP shield. Cost 3000MP
• Enhanced Blackest Night - Learned at level 70, 25% HP shield (Current iteration)
• Abyssal Drain - Remains learned at 56. Combo to Unleash. Restores 15% of damage dealt as HP.
• Stalwart Soul - learned at 72, combo finisher to abyssal drain. Combo bonus: Restores MP. Increases Blood Gauge by 20.
• Bloodspiller - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Quietus - Off Global. Recast 10 seconds
• Edge/Flood of Darkness - remove from game. Don't need 2 ways to keep Dark side active.
• Edge/Flood of Shadow - Deals 500 potency attack to primary target then 300 potency to all mobs in a straight line.
• Blood Weapon - Add skill-speed boost back onto skill.
• Dread Spikes - Wraps user in abyssal energy returning 15% of damage taken as HP. Duration 8 seconds. Cost 25 Gauge.
• Carve and Spit. Second combo finisher to Syphon Strike, combo potency 450. Adds bleed effect (90 potency dot) duration 20 seconds.
• Living Dead - Reduce healing needed to 50%.
• Delirium - Really don't know how to fix this. Don't want a wasted skill, or a skill that's identical to Inner Release.

Gunbreaker
Remains unchanged. I don't know enough about this job. Unlocked but never played.

[RadicalPesto]

An offensive gauge spender with an effective cooldown of 7 seconds is the last thing Paladin needs. It would effectively make players avoid Sheltron and add so much empty APM as to make Dark Arts seem like a good mechanic.

[MurasakiAeda]

An offensive gauge spender with an effective cooldown of 7 seconds is the last thing Paladin needs. It would effectively make players avoid Sheltron and add so much empty APM as to make Dark Arts seem like a good mechanic.

I feel like removing Dark Arts was a waste, could they not have improved upon it? Like increase it's recast time to something higher like 15s and changes to which abilities could be enhanced by it. There was just too many moves which could be enhanced by DA in SB. Dark Arts could also enhance defensive abilities again. I feel that the issue with DA in Stormblood was how frequently one had to use it, not so much the ability.

[MariaArvana]

I feel like removing Dark Arts was a waste, could they not have improved upon it? Like increase it's recast time to something higher like 15s and changes to which abilities could be enhanced by it. There was just too many moves which could be enhanced by DA in SB. Dark Arts could also enhance defensive abilities again. I feel that the issue with DA in Stormblood was how frequently one had to use it, not so much the ability.

At the crux of its core, DA was a 140 potency OGCD. It enhanced every offensive move basically the same way; giving it 140 potency.
Flood of Shadow/Edge of Shadow operate the same way that DA did at the crux of its core; using an OGCD that pushes out a certain amount of extra potency. Only FoS & EoS cost way more, thus solving DA's issue of being required to essentially be spammed.

If DA were to ever come back again, it would need an entirely new effect; as EoS & FoS have taken over its old role.

As far as the OP's changes, you'd have to re-work WARs entire offensive kit if you want to make FC & Decimate OGCD, as you'd utterly neuter IR which composes a ton of WAR's damage. Also 10% all damage reduction for 6s >>> 50% parry. When they're making a bunch of steps to letting CDs be all encompassing, creating or changing CDs to only affect 50% of damage types (only physical or only magic) is a step backwards.

[shao32]

I don't see how this will make DRK and WAR feel different if delirium is still a thing, WAR gaining more oGCD and both having his fell cleaves working the same, this will makthem both feel even more copy pasted.

snip

Edge and DA are not the same, not even close, the only thing that have in common is they are the primary MP spender.

DA old design could have way more applications and mechanics that could be build around it, edge no, DA use to allow us to have a dinamic combo system, on Aoe situations works as a HP drain more that damage and it could be a nice partner to have with edge but nooooo the Devs just ignore DRK feedback like always, want more MP options so DA wasn't so spamy? Don't worry we remove it and we add edge instead, more combos? Pffff you don't need that, here get inner release instead and stare at the same combo again and again and again now with way less oGCD in middle.

Removing DA was a completi waste, such skill with so many ways to work around substituted by a generic oGCD.

[MariaArvana]

I don't see how this will make DRK and WAR feel different if delirium is still a thing, WAR gaining more oGCD and both having his fell cleaves working the same, this will makthem both feel even more copy pasted.



Edge and DA are not the same, not even close, the only thing that have in common is they are the primary MP spender.

DA old design could have way more applications and mechanics that could be build around it, edge no, DA use to allow us to have a dinamic combo system, on Aoe situations works as a HP drain more that damage and it could be a nice partner to have with edge but nooooo the Devs just ignore DRK feedback like always, want more MP options so DA wasn't so spamy? Don't worry we remove it and we add edge instead, more combos? Pffff you don't need that, here get inner release instead and stare at the same combo again and again and again now with way less oGCD in middle.

Removing DA was a completi waste, such skill with so many ways to work around substituted by a generic oGCD.

On bosses, your primary use of of DA was to:
Buff Soul eater.
Buff Siphon Strike.
Buff C&S.
Buff DP (depending)
Buff BS.

Heck, they even removed the DA effect from DM because Yoshi-P knew that the very concept of how they've designed this game would make most serious DRk players outright ignore DM's DA effect due to it being a straight dps loss.

Notice the similarity between them all? Adding extra damage by spending MP. You know what OGCD(s) DRK has in SHB that does damage by spending MP?
My point is that DA's primary purpose in SB has been replaced by another OGCD that also fixed the downside to most people's complaints regarding DA. If they wanted to bring DA back, give it a new effect thats more meaningful, as in SB it's primary function and use during bosses was literally a 140 potency OGCD, which EoS & FoS have nicely fixed and replaced.

[waterboytkd]

I think giving PLD an offensive move that uses Oath Gauge is a mistake. When balancing PLD dps, you would either have to consider it part of their dps or not; in the former's case, using defensive abilities would represent "losing dps", and in the latter's case, it would mean working it into your rotation means PLD are overperforming dps-wise. Also, you made Sheltron have nearly an 80% uptime with your change (in 8 seconds, a PLD will accrue almost 20 Oath--it's something like 5 Oath every 2.2 seconds). And I don't understand the Clemency change. It's not supposed to actually be used normally. It's an emergency button. Moving it to an oGCD doesn't really change that as using it delays your Req window still. I feel like being on the GCD, with exactly the same MP cost as your other Spells, is a bit more elegant for Clemency.

[Makeda]

Tanks have gauges?

(Ok I am aware, and even know that the GNB charges are even more offense than those gauges...)

To be serious though... I think this could be seen as a paladin weakpoint. Again as a tank I don’t have a gauge on the one I leveled with my new main... but if you put the ability to do mitigation into a gauge you risk not having mitigation when needed. That just starts to remind me of warrior in WoW. Either you never had enough resources to keep up ignore pain and took too much damage or you had too much and could slide too much damage off the table letting you basically “break” some fights...

- that’s why the gauges do offense. It is so SE can predict exactly how much mitigation we can do at each gear point and design fights around hard numbers that only change at the far edges of player skill.

[shao32]

On bosses, your primary use of of DA was to:
Buff Soul eater.
Buff Siphon Strike.
Buff C&S.
Buff DP (depending)
Buff BS.

Heck, they even removed the DA effect from DM because Yoshi-P knew that the very concept of how they've designed this game would make most serious DRk players outright ignore DM's DA effect due to it being a straight dps loss.

Notice the similarity between them all? Adding extra damage by spending MP. You know what OGCD(s) DRK has in SHB that does damage by spending MP?
My point is that DA's primary purpose in SB has been replaced by another OGCD that also fixed the downside to most people's complaints regarding DA. If they wanted to bring DA back, give it a new effect thats more meaningful, as in SB it's primary function and use during bosses was literally a 140 potency OGCD, which EoS & FoS have nicely fixed and replaced.

And my point is they choose they laziest option because they are short minded.

DA use to have several uses in the past, one of the bringing combo diversity, the skill himself was pretty important for the job identity, I compare DA to his HW version too in mind and she skill have different purposes on aoe situations so they are not the same, comparing one thing with only a part of the other is not a good way to make comparations.
,SB DA design was a mistake in some ways yes but remove the entire mechanic because they have a problem with the rates? They forget what the skill use to bring? It could be a nice partner with edge so darkside wasn't on auto keep mode making the new gauge more useless that the lillis of SB, they could use it to bring more combos as we asked like the HW ones instead of locking us with the soul eater combo all day, they could use it to bring different effects as you toggle his uses with edge but no.

Removing DA was lazy, short minded and unimaginative way to do things, they don't have any idea how to design DRK and that's why we have all this drama around him.

[DRKoftheAzure]

So everyone is discussing how to diversify tanks more, but no one is talking about how
we are tanks and why our gauge is used for a damage burst phase. Except for Paladin which spends it's gauge on defensive abilities.

So right now paladin is the only tank class that is slightly different from the other tanks. Only due to Sheltron, Cover and Intervene which are spenders for Oath Gauge. I get that if as tanks we don't deal a decent amount of damage then out in the field soloing mobs will take longer but hey that's the trade off for being able to survive longer. Now i'm not saying nerf tank damage into the ground, but remove the burst phase from tanks and add flavor gauge spenders.

I literally go into detail about how to do that on the very first page with 2 post on the forum thread that you happen to be talking about.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rsifying-Tanks