summoner should get a do-over

[grinkdaboy]

just wipe the slate clean and give us something like the xi summoner. i wouldn't even be mad if in 6.0 rather than 2 new classes they just scrapped summoner and made 1 new class and a new and improved summoner. they just keep slapping bandaid upon bandaid upon bandaid instead of properly cleaning and sealing the wound

[Shougun]

I'd feel really bad for those who love the current version of summoner , having a whole job just kind of yanked from underneath them... but I guess on a very selfish level I wouldn't be opposed to letting them take Machinist wack at it (they made, imo, Machinist very cool and fresh).

On that "probably shouldn't" (imo) but if I could have it greed.. I'd take/like a sort of FFXI (modernized) meets Yuna Dissida mix of both pets and one off super summons (both summon pets and big boom summons), completely removing anything non-primal related and especially taking away the poisons and ruins. Arcanist can be part of the quest requirements like conjurer for paladin but paying no mind to Arcanist's own skills when making Summoner. All the primal models not having to be the size of actual primals (that's probably a horrible idea lol, way too big) but none of them having the small scale or non-grandiose image of the egi. At least imo summoner throughout all the FFs has been many many things, healer, damage dealer, support, random items, super moves, early game hax and late game useless, but the one thing that has always (always) been summoner was that grandiose over the top image.. and that's the one thing FFXIV summoner lacked for quite a while.

Yet I think they've moved far and attempted to appease both parties, while staying fairly cost effective, and I think they've slowly gone in a direction that has the potential to appease multiple parties- just need to keep both adding and grinding.

So I must give SE credit they're adding that quite a bit for a while now (things I've thought were "that, exactly that- yes demi? oh yeah!"), which is why I have hope and think they don't need to rework it all. Also we've got that whole egi glamour system and more expansions, so even more feeling "it's going to be okay, I don't need to fret anymore- an issue here or there can be fixed!". Maybe optimistic but at least I feel they're listening and I honestly appreciate that, not saying what others should want/need to do but I want to give them time and see what they can do (while just quietly whispering "primal.." "primal..." whenever they go to add something to the job lol).

Not saying no.. just.. if it's not /awesome/ it'd be a really sad thing to happen to those who actually liked it. Personally I'm okay with the job's game mechanics- I don't dislike them, but I am not soul bound to them either. It'd be horrible thing to have your job completely redone and you feel like the rework is worse xD. Just my imo(s) .

[Enkidoh]

I hate to say it, but you will never see the FFXI version of SMN here in FFXIV for several reasons.

One, and this is the original reason why SMN in FFXIV has never been able to summon 'full size' summons is because in the game's lore that's the domain of Primal summoning which is, of course, a major plot point about being a very bad thing. FFXIV SMN's lore gets around that by being an Allagan-developed work-around that only summons a mock-up, cut-down version of of the 'real thing' in the form of an 'egi' or 'demi' with none of the mind-warping, soul-searing corruption. This is different to FFXI's SMN where you were literally summoning the actual summons who were literal gods in FFXI's storyline that the SMN made a literal pact with to do so.

The other reason SMN here in FFXIV will never be like FFXI is simple pragmatisim. Yoshi does not like pet-style Jobs, and the problems faced with ACN/SMN/SCH are proof they're outright trying to get away from pet classes of any form (hence why you will never see the likes of BST here in FFXIV either).

That's not to say SMN won't be refined and improvements added (along with ACN and SCH), but the unfortunate truth of the situation is that it will never become the same as FFXI's SMN (or something like Yuna from FFX). That is just being realistic.

[MrKusakabe]

Yoshi does not like pet-style Jobs [...]

That is absolutely terrible. What kind of designer is that? I guess you have your sources where he said or implied that, but I just dislike him a tad more for that. "Oh, I don't like that, so my players should not get it". This guy needs to replaced for fresh wind. The team behind him does the job after all, he's just some posterboy. Like every "director".

[DPZ2]

That is absolutely terrible. What kind of designer is that? I guess you have your sources where he said or implied that, but I just dislike him a tad more for that. "Oh, I don't like that, so my players should not get it". This guy needs to replaced for fresh wind. The team behind him does the job after all, he's just some posterboy. Like every "director".

Without that "posterboy", there would be no game for you to complain about. I am disappointed to see you write drivel in a posting, given your rather thoughtful comments on other threads.

[TwiibieTwuu]

Without that "posterboy", there would be no game for you to complain about. I am disappointed to see you write drivel in a posting, given your rather thoughtful comments on other threads.

I think they were being sarcastic

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

My only issue with Summoner is I can't Summon Ramuh.
The game teases it with you in a Job Quest, but BOOM nope, not allowed to harness more then 3......then they give us Bahamut and Phoenix later.....
Why can't I have Leviathan and Shiva as well? Dammit Square give me a Bismark egi! I wanna be a Summoner with lots of cool summons! D;

Don't Let my Dreams be Dreams. Just... DO IT

[Soge01]

A rework where we replace all regular egi with Demi versions for temp summoning instead would be a nice rework

[Shougun]

I assume that is for OP, but just to clarify in case- I said primal in the sense of theme (less bio more primal related). Not that they need to be literal star sucking monsters lol. Which should be clear since I also said I dont want full size variants either.


I only add that because the argument and the comment remind a lot of past conversations. Flash backs to people always assuming that what I said (fullsize) or using the lore to prevent evolution of the summoner (pre-demi days). Obviously using the lore like that back then ended up being wrong (as I've seen quite a few lore no's become) since we did get demis, there wasnt anything preventing us from going bigger without damaging lore (via demi). Definitely not suggesting we true summon a primal though, its unnecessary as demi are quite big enough.

[dinnertime]

I'm assuming most people just want SMN to be like FFXI's because of the large summons. We already have two big Demi summons, just let it be known to the dev team that people want more. That and/or ask for Egi summons to be reworked in gameplay and appearance because they're still bad. There's hope for SMN thematically with Bahamut, then they improved upon it even more with Pheonix letting you use Phoenix-themed attacks. I just hope the summoning aspect gets improved upon and becomes more frequent in the future.

Other than that, this is incredibly unrealistic. They won't redesign the job entirely from scratch. For gameplay in particular, in my opinion SMN became better and better as expansions go but flopped in ShB, although it still shows promise. The gameplay is fine...or was, but can totally be fixed. If you hope for a rework, they won't stray from the basic fundamentals of its current design.