Monk Role needs Changes

[Lunavi]

If you actually paid attention, i litterally said i know the have high dps but that doesnt mean their skills are good. They have the same core rotation sense arr everything after that, 3 expansions have been poorly executed. At least blm rotation was expanded and evolved and yall got a good number of usable attack skills. Monks got like another commenter said "maybe 1 good skill each expansion".

Once again, I said we do NOT need any fixes, just that we need them more than MNKs, which DO NOT NEED ANY CHANGES EITHER in my opinion. At least not over classes such as Dancer that are in an extremely extremely poor spot right now. My problem is and remain that you think you as MNK get the short end of the stick when you are currently the best in the game. If your skills were bad you wouldn't be top DPS. It might just be that you do not ENJOY MNK right now, and I can't take that away from you, but from an objective standpoint, MNKs are in a fantastic place right now. The best place they might actually have ever been. But there is a difference between YOU enjoying MNK and MNK having received the short end of the stick and severely needs fixing over jobs that barely gets into end game content.

[Silver-Strider]

Here's what they do to MNK.

1) Change the CD of Riddle of Fire/Brotherhood to 120 seconds. Extend the duration of Brotherhood to 20 seconds and have it apply to all damage.
2) Remove the GL requirement of Tornado Kick and instead have it be something that can only be used every 3rd refreshing of GL (This also applies to refreshing caused by Riddle of Earth and Anatman)
3) Change Anatman to only grant GL stacks every 3 seconds, regardless of server ticks and lower the CD to 30 seconds.
4) Change SSS into an oGCD that can only be used after a successful Tornado Kick and grant 10 seconds of True North upon its execution with no slow effect.
5) Either remove the True North effect from Riddle of Earth entirely, or reduce it down to 10 seconds at the most.
6) Remove the Fist Stances and untie GL4 from them. They offer nothing to the class and are fluff that can be removed entirely. They can also make the fist stances into just weaker versions of Riddles that change to riddles later on, with Fist of Wind becoming a trait to increase movement speed and Riddle of Wind being the trait to unlock the 2nd Should Tackle.
7) Have Brotherhood naturally generate 1 Chakra every 3 seconds for its duration while also still maintaining the extra chance to earn them from allies.
8) Change Deep Meditation into a 100% guaranteed chakra on crit.

Just some of my own personal adjustments to MNK. Take from them what you will, I feel that they would be pretty balanced, all things considered.

[Deithwen]

Once again, I said we do NOT need any fixes, just that we need them more than MNKs, which DO NOT NEED ANY CHANGES EITHER in my opinion. At least not over classes such as Dancer that are in an extremely extremely poor spot right now. My problem is and remain that you think you as MNK get the short end of the stick when you are currently the best in the game. If your skills were bad you wouldn't be top DPS. It might just be that you do not ENJOY MNK right now, and I can't take that away from you, but from an objective standpoint, MNKs are in a fantastic place right now. The best place they might actually have ever been. But there is a difference between YOU enjoying MNK and MNK having received the short end of the stick and severely needs fixing over jobs that barely gets into end game content.

Dancer needs potency fixes, Monk needs a complete rework because the job is filled with contradictory design. Just looking at DPS is narrow minded.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

Forums are for discussion.If you cant take criticism you shoulnt post here.

Criticism is constructive and can be debated, alot here is just toxic nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

Once again, I said we do NOT need any fixes, just that we need them more than MNKs, which DO NOT NEED ANY CHANGES EITHER in my opinion. At least not over classes such as Dancer that are in an extremely extremely poor spot right now. My problem is and remain that you think you as MNK get the short end of the stick when you are currently the best in the game. If your skills were bad you wouldn't be top DPS. It might just be that you do not ENJOY MNK right now, and I can't take that away from you, but from an objective standpoint, MNKs are in a fantastic place right now. The best place they might actually have ever been. But there is a difference between YOU enjoying MNK and MNK having received the short end of the stick and severely needs fixing over jobs that barely gets into end game content.

IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE POST, this is the EXACT topic. It is not enjoyable. Its boring to just stand still 75% of the time ignoring my mechanics, its boring to know that in 3 expansions ive basically got 3 or so skills that are actually usable and dont disrupt the origional design. Its humorously bad that 1 QoL buff completely x'ed my anatman and six sided star. It sucks that because of the removal of skills this expansion, i lost my opener, and made tornado kick obsolete and incredably situational. If u believe blm is in a worse situation, then u are completely closed to any kind of debate and are wasting the rest of the people's time here.

[Metalwrath]

Once again, I said we do NOT need any fixes, just that we need them more than MNKs, which DO NOT NEED ANY CHANGES EITHER in my opinion. At least not over classes such as Dancer that are in an extremely extremely poor spot right now. My problem is and remain that you think you as MNK get the short end of the stick when you are currently the best in the game. If your skills were bad you wouldn't be top DPS. It might just be that you do not ENJOY MNK right now, and I can't take that away from you, but from an objective standpoint, MNKs are in a fantastic place right now. The best place they might actually have ever been. But there is a difference between YOU enjoying MNK and MNK having received the short end of the stick and severely needs fixing over jobs that barely gets into end game content.

Monk does need fixes though.The job is currently very broken.It does way too much dps.So while it may not need an immediate change to making it actually fun to play again it does need a heavy nerf.
Saying its in a good place is wrong.A good place would mean its strong but balanced.This is 100% not the case.The job is way too strong in the hands of competant players.It kept geting buffed to draw bad players to the job which has resulted in the job being way overtuned.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

Saying that one job should be at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of having its problems addressed is unnecessarily spiteful and but depending on how wide you set the window for "attention" Monk has basically seen the least, and by your other criteria Monk would be one of the jobs most in need of quality of life.

Monk may have seen a bit of attention in 5.05, but player complaints on how its skills worked and played were largely ignored since Heavensward in favor of complaints people had for Summoner/Ninja/other jobs. This was when Monk was the absolute worst job in the game mind you, with comparable damage to Ninja and less than Dragoon at the beginning of the expansion that only became marginally better than Dragoon by the end, on top of being the only job without any aggro control, the strictest job mechanic to work around for Mechanics, the worst TP burn (a problem Ninja had fixed immediately mind), and no means of buffing the party at all. Stormblood's complaints were similarly, acknowledged on streams at the beginning of the expansion, and then ignored. When they actually did change Monk at all, the devs accidentally created a new rotation that was divisive among the community and absolutely not what they intended to. And they went about fixing it in Shadowbringers by undoing the best quality of life the job had ever seen (PB at 60 seconds) instead of changing Tornado Kick to be something other than overly situational. If you set the window for "attention" wide enough, it becomes obvious that the condition Monk is in now, both in how its overperforming and the state of its kit is a direct result of developer inattention more than anything.

Situational skills? You're talking to the job that is the undisputed champ of them and has been since Heavensward. Forbidden Chakra was a situational disengage skill and because the design of it wasn't changed when it became a Gauge system, it's currently the only gauge that has absolutely no overhead between being useable and capping your resource. Our capstone skill in Heavensward Tornado Kick, was only ever useful in a rotation because of developer oversight. Riddle of Earth was so situational that making Form Shift work the way it always should have required it to gain an entirely new effect (and it's activation requirement is still stupid and gets blocked by shields). Anatman's janky secondary purpose is now it's only purpose, and Six Sided Star, another ultimate ability, while not quite as useless as Tornado Kick, is still something who's use we want to minimize during a fight.

And as for skills Monk has lost the job is a veritable graveyard of skills that we once used rotationally that we don't have anymore. Touch of Death, Howling Fist, Fracture, Internal Release, and Steel Peak are all gone and Monk hasn't seen anything to replace them because we've gotten nothing but situational nonsense.

What's "unique" about Monk's problems and flaws is that many of them have existed for multiple expansions, and they've never been addressed because the "attention" you say Monk has been lavished with is something that literally never happens with the job. Instead they've been allowed to fester and created a paradoxical interplay where the Jobs' currently managing to perform very highly despite having the single worst put together kit in the game, and funnily enough, because of its kit being so poorly put together, if the devs nerf it in the wrong manner then it'll be possible to pull off some other Jank to partially make up the damage elsewhere.

A player From my other post

[Lunavi]

IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE POST, this is the EXACT topic. It is not enjoyable. Its boring to just stand still 75% of the time ignoring my mechanics, its boring to know that in 3 expansions ive basically got 3 or so skills that are actually usable and dont disrupt the origional design. Its humorously bad that 1 QoL buff completely x'ed my anatman and six sided star. It sucks that because of the removal of skills this expansion, i lost my opener, and made tornado kick obsolete and incredably situational. If u believe blm is in a worse situation, then u are completely closed to any kind of debate and are wasting the rest of the people's time here.

And if you read anything I have said I have said that while MNK is from your subjective opinion boring, other jobs are from an objective standpoint so bad that many people do not even want to see them in endgame as during the early weeks they could not even reach the DPS checks, and despite that you still think MNK has gotten the short end of the stick despite being an actually working job, and being best in class, and yes, even better than BLM. Just take a look at FFLogs and you will quickly see that MNKs are in a VERY favored position right now, despite what your subjective opinion on how "fun" the job is to play is.

So what do you thing SE should focus their limited time and resources for balancing on, changing MNK to your subjective opinion of what fun is, or fix jobs that are objectively on the bottom of the barrel so that they can actually reach the DPS checks at the same period of time as other jobs? I know what I think they should spend their time on.

But yes, to add, when it comes to expansion time, I feel like they could indeed try to focus on giving MNKs some new interesting things like all other jobs, I will NOT be opposed to that, but right here, right now, in the middle of an expansion cycle, there are fare direr things to look after.

Monk does need fixes though.The job is currently very broken.It does way too much dps.So while it may not need an immediate change to making it actually fun to play again it does need a heavy nerf.
Saying its in a good place is wrong.A good place would mean its strong but balanced.This is 100% not the case.The job is way too strong in the hands of competant players.It kept geting buffed to draw bad players to the job which has resulted in the job being way overtuned.

I actually mentioned this earlier in this thread

There are far graver things that needs to be fixed than MNK right now in terms of class rebalancing, unless said rebalance is a direct nerf of MNKs.

so I totally agree with this statement. However, some jobs are so bad they can not reach the DPS checks of endgame content upon release, that is where I personally feel attention foremost needs to be directed as those jobs are clearly very much undertuned for where they need to be.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

And if you read anything I have said I have said that while MNK is from your subjective opinion boring, other jobs are from an objective standpoint so bad that many people do not even want to see them in endgame as during the early weeks they could not even reach the DPS checks, and despite that you still think MNK has gotten the short end of the stick despite being an actually working job, and being best in class, and yes, even better than BLM. Just take a look at FFLogs and you will quickly see that MNKs are in a VERY favored position right now, despite what your subjective opinion on how "fun" the job is to play is.

So what do you thing SE should focus their limited time and resources for balancing on, changing MNK to your subjective opinion of what fun is, or fix jobs that are objectively on the bottom of the barrel so that they can actually reach the DPS checks at the same period of time as other jobs? I know what I think they should spend their time on.

But yes, to add, when it comes to expansion time, I feel like they could indeed try to focus on giving MNKs some new interesting things like all other jobs, I will NOT be opposed to that, but right here, right now, in the middle of an expansion cycle, there are fare direr things to look after.

If what i say is an opinionated statement, than its shared by the entire monk community. Just because you disagree and submite your opinion counter to my own, does not mean you are right. After all it's just an opinion, rather short sighted, but still just. What you state as a "favorable position" is the same position the had and still hold aense the end of a realm reborn. Nothing spectacular has changes sense then until the hic up in stormsblood that gave us the opener that we enjoyed, but guess what....monks arnt allowed to be happy....so they took it away. So now we are back to the start, arr with a few extra janky skills taged on the end.

[Lunavi]

If what i say is an opinionated statement, than its shared by the entire monk community. Just because you disagree and submite your opinion counter to my own, does not mean you are right. After all it's just an opinion, rather short sighted, but still just. What you state as a "favorable position" is the same position the had and still hold aense the end of a realm reborn. Nothing spectacular has changes sense then until the hic up in stormsblood that gave us the opener that we enjoyed, but guess what....monks arnt allowed to be happy....so they took it away. So now we are back to the start, arr with a few extra janky skills taged on the end.

So you are telling me that SE should focus their resources on fixing the top DPS in the game where there are DPS jobs that could not reach their part of the DPS check at launch of Savage? In a world of infinite manpower and resources being poured into this game, I would 100% agree that this is something they could and should pursue mid expansion, however, there are direr things to look after in my opinion due to what I mentioned above in this world, where resources and manpower is indeed limited.