Monk Role needs Changes

[grinkdaboy]

i think something should be said about optimal monk play necessitating the use of a 3rd party plugin/modification

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

Yeah, and BLMs have Blizzard II, Fire II, Blizzard I, Scathe (which while it has very niche uses, still isn't used 99.9% of the cases and when it is used it is diminishing returns), Sleep, and Lucid Dreaming as dead abilities. To even make the claim that MNK is getting the short end of the stick is like claiming that you are the most unlucky person on earth because your Kobe steak is medium well instead of medium rare while your neighbor has to go through trash bins to find food for themselves and their families. Same if I would unironically sit here and claim that BLMs are in a bad spot (which they ain't) because Blizzard I is a dead abilitiy.

Difference being is that through the expansions, the blm actually evolved. Monk has been the same sense ARR.

And besides i listed blm in the classes that needed t9 be fixed in one of my replys.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

i think something should be said about optimal monk play necessitating the use of a 3rd party plugin/modification

I totally agree, you sgould never have to outsource to a 3rd party just to use an ingame skill effectively.

This goes for any class and any skill.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

Id like to take a moment to ask any monks in the room if they find the current state of the monk class fun.

I wanna know if its fun to you. What about is fun. Does any of the changes thats happened to the monk throughout the expansions appeal to you...or put you off. Has your rotations been altered by the changes greatly.

Positive and negatives.

Lets have a discussion.

And if you read through the origional post, what do you think the changes i proposed would do to the class to expand on what the monk origionally was.

Would it be fun for you?

[Deithwen]

snip

Heya, I've been a main Monk since Arr, and an experienced raider with this job since Arr as well (although I play all melees, I mostly prog as monk or samurai).

I agree with you mostly, Monk has very good numbers today, but since stormblood the job is a complete mess riddled with useless skills or skills that are so niche, they actually reduce our DPS.

- Tornado kick : very useless skill although it was good at the end of stormblood (this was probably the best rotation Monk ever had, while it lasted). As for now, it is even less useful because of Six Sided Star and the ability to keep GL forever. Be happy to even use it properly once during a fight. Also I see many beginners using it all the time, which is very bad. Its design itself is counter intuitive as Monks are encouraged to keep their staks and have many things to keep them up. The skill needs a complete redesign.
- Six sided star : kind of the new tornado kick in terms of usage, very underwhelming, DPS loss if used at the wrong time and the worst part is that it is still tied to GCD.
- Riddle of earth : formerly used to maintain stacks, it had a few use cases in Storblood. Now it is just an OP True North. This skill is competely overpowered as we speak now.
- Riddle of wind : was good at the end of stormblood as it allowed the tornado kick rotation (although it was really garbage at the start, like the most useless thing ever). Now it's just gone.
- One ilm punch : although it was removed in Shadowbringers, this skill was trash from the beginning and could just be removed from the hotbar. It took the devs 6 years to remove it and replace it with a proper AOE move.
- Riddle of fire : it was awful in Stormblood, being slowed down was horrible however I see why the devs did this so we could double weave. But still the feeling was bad.
- Brotherhood : random chackra proc, this is awful too. Monks was a steady job that needed skill only to perform good. Rng was not needed and it needs to be removed.
- Touch of death : RIP ... It actually was a nice skill for monk, that would allow us some control over the flow of our rotation, same for fracture. But you know, lower the skill ceiling ...
- Anatman : almost useless since we can keep stacks forever. The only use case is if we have enough downtime to TK and anatman after, which almost never happens again. Worst part of it : it is tied to server tick and we need it for the optimal opener. This makes me want to quit monk until fixed. I sincerly hope this is an oversight because if I imagine that someone approved this I can't help but facepalming.


And also they removed two offgcds, making the main rotation even more boring.

All of this leaves barely any doubt : no one in the Dev team knows the job and how to play it. They've let monks down since the first expansion.
We've got so far : almost no change in HW and were buffed many times then SB broke the job then fixed it and now broken again in ShB although the dps is great (actually competely OP).

I strongly believe that Monk, like Mch needs a complete rework from ground up. No amount of fixes would be anough at this point without taking the time to really think about the job itself.

[Noctisnine]

Id love to get your detailed opinion about my idea, sense u seem to still appreciate the monk as a class. What do you agree/disagree with. How could the idea be improved? What would you think would be a good idea to push the monks problem into the light and try to really push for a change?

It's kinda hard to tell but, for ages he had this one, two, three rotation that happens twice with different positionals, and then he has forbidden chakra and that's it, he has no cool flashy skills in his rotation, if we compare it to dragoon who has stardiver, Geirskogul, mirage dive and nastrond monk feels lacking, maybe they could rework riddle of fire not to be just a damage buff but instead, you would be able to cast tornado kick once without loosing any greased lightning stacks.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

It's kinda hard to tell but, for ages he had this one, two, three rotation that happens twice with different positionals, and then he has forbidden chakra and that's it, he has no cool flashy skills in his rotation, if we compare it to dragoon who has stardiver, Geirskogul, mirage dive and nastrond monk feels lacking, maybe they could rework riddle of fire not to be just a damage buff but instead, you would be able to cast tornado kick once without loosing any greased lightning stacks.

That would be a nice QoL thought. Maybe instead of RoF bring RoW back as a skill to do this, maybe have it give a skill speed buff for a certain duration and give the free cast of tornado kick.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

Heya, I've been a main Monk since Arr, and an experienced raider with this job since Arr as well (although I play all melees, I mostly prog as monk or samurai).

I agree with you mostly, Monk has very good numbers today, but since stormblood the job is a complete mess riddled with useless skills or skills that are so niche, they actually reduce our DPS.

- Tornado kick : very useless skill although it was good at the end of stormblood (this was probably the best rotation Monk ever had, while it lasted). As for now, it is even less useful because of Six Sided Star and the ability to keep GL forever. Be happy to even use it properly once during a fight. Also I see many beginners using it all the time, which is very bad. Its design itself is counter intuitive as Monks are encouraged to keep their staks and have many things to keep them up. The skill needs a complete redesign.
- Six sided star : kind of the new tornado kick in terms of usage, very underwhelming, DPS loss if used at the wrong time and the worst part is that it is still tied to GCD.
- Riddle of earth : formerly used to maintain stacks, it had a few use cases in Storblood. Now it is just an OP True North. This skill is competely overpowered as we speak now.
- Riddle of wind : was good at the end of stormblood as it allowed the tornado kick rotation (although it was really garbage at the start, like the most useless thing ever). Now it's just gone.
- One ilm punch : although it was removed in Shadowbringers, this skill was trash from the beginning and could just be removed from the hotbar. It took the devs 6 years to remove it and replace it with a proper AOE move.
- Riddle of fire : it was awful in Stormblood, being slowed down was horrible however I see why the devs did this so we could double weave. But still the feeling was bad.
- Brotherhood : random chackra proc, this is awful too. Monks was a steady job that needed skill only to perform good. Rng was not needed and it needs to be removed.
- Touch of death : RIP ... It actually was a nice skill for monk, that would allow us some control over the flow of our rotation, same for fracture. But you know, lower the skill ceiling ...
- Anatman : almost useless since we can keep stacks forever. The only use case is if we have enough downtime to TK and anatman after, which almost never happens again. Worst part of it : it is tied to server tick and we need it for the optimal opener. This makes me want to quit monk until fixed. I sincerly hope this is an oversight because if I imagine that someone approved this I can't help but facepalming.


And also they removed two offgcds, making the main rotation even more boring.

All of this leaves barely any doubt : no one in the Dev team knows the job and how to play it. They've let monks down since the first expansion.
We've got so far : almost no change in HW and were buffed many times then SB broke the job then fixed it and now broken again in ShB although the dps is great (actually competely OP).

I strongly believe that Monk, like Mch needs a complete rework from ground up. No amount of fixes would be anough at this point without taking the time to really think about the job itself.

Im so happy to see someone else that shares my view of the monks standings.

What points of my proposal did u agree/disagree with? Would you think it could fix and start to evolve the monk?

[Deithwen]

Im so happy to see someone else that shares my view of the monks standings.

What points of my proposal did u agree/disagree with? Would you think it could fix and start to evolve the monk?

I like your idea of Dragon form, although I am not sure about the implementation (I'm sorry, It's a bit hard to read ^^' ). Dragon form could even be a buff that you obtain once you open all 14 chakras and would act like a burst form just like DRG Life of the dragon, the difference being that we can choose when to use it (while LotD is pretty well aligned to raid buffs as it is). Now how we would open those chakras, I don't know, I'm not a game designer.
I agree that they could expand on light and dark monk schools, because it is weird that we are supposed to have opened all 7 light chakras and all 7 dark ones, and yet nothing in our skillset reflects that.

[Sonya_Nillefrant]

I like your idea of Dragon form, although I am not sure about the implementation (I'm sorry, It's a bit hard to read ^^' ). Dragon form could even be a buff that you obtain once you open all 14 chakras and would act like a burst form just like DRG Life of the dragon, the difference being that we can choose when to use it (while LotD is pretty well aligned to raid buffs as it is). Now how we would open those chakras, I don't know, I'm not a game designer.
I agree that they could expand on light and dark monk schools, because it is weird that we are supposed to have opened all 7 light chakras and all 7 dark ones, and yet nothing in our skillset reflects that.

Its an interesting idea, the reason i tied the drak chakra to the dragon moves was cause they would be dark side orientated.

And sense the regular skills crits can generate light chakra, it would only be fair that the dark would generate dark chakra, and limit it to that. No dark skill for light chakra and vice vs.