A propsoal to solve the longterm issue of endgame content (A Deep Dungeon idea)

[Kaliesto]

I wanted to suggest a idea for FFXIV to see if Yoshida-san would consider because I think this idea may (or may not work in some capacity). I was thinking about one of SE's older FF titles (specifically Final Fantasy X-2) and how they had this mega dungeon with previous enemies the protagonists fought and with a grande finale of a new original enemy.

Basically I propose is a type of Deep Dungeon that would take literally weeks to complete as it can't be done within a day. Ah but the question is what would be the incentive? I will get to that later.

Basically what I propose is this:

100 Floor Dungeon, but the twist is that each floor is huge winding maze that has no mini-map so you have to use either clues to find where you are OR the aid of other players that you'll come across.

This dungeon does not have a party formation, so basically anyone you come across you'll have to stick together to survive, and you can only be defeated in combat only a certain amount of times or else you suffer a penalty of sorts.

The save feature also would become more important due to the size and the time it will take to complete it.

Pomanders will not be as plentiful as they used to be, but will become that much more valuable if you find one. Maybe there will be one pomander that can help you in the right direction in the maze..

Each floor contains a boss that has previously appeared in the story OR from side-quests except the catch is they're more beefed up than before but with the same tactics except they can execute attacks much faster. They're merely shades of their former selves, but wouldn't mind having some revenge on you. (This way the dev team doesn't have to make new resources for enemies).

With each floor completed there is a gil reward multiplier that increases with each floor completion, and 1-3 random treasures. The maximum gil you can earn is 100,000 gil upon completing the 100th floor.

Now how would these floors be kept fresh when starting a new game? Basically the 1st floor and beyond will never be the same floors, so whatever floor you get is the one you'll have to deal with. So basically everyone's starting floors and beyond will not always be the same. Oh and you'll always be teleported to a random spot on the map upon starting the floor, so yes be sure to start manually mapping your surroundings DnD style.

Also upon completing this Deep Dungeon the first time you'll earn one piece of unique gear that will give you a slight advantage with special stats against the monsters only for this Deep Dungeon.

Also strewn about the floors of this deep dungeon is pieces of a powerful relic weapon, but they will not be very easy to find but the reward will be well worth it. Upon restoring the lost weapon you'll gain a boost against the creatures of the dungeon.


Now what story reason would it be to bring back previous enemies long since dead? Well I'll leave that to the devs to decide...maybe these are the souls that refuse to go back to the lifestream, should we call them The Unsent being led by a very powerful voidsent that looks kind of like Yu Yevon from Final Fantasy X? I think it would be pretty cool to face against some story enemies we only got to fight once, and never again afterwards (like Han'jit for example, would be interesting to fight a more dangerous version of him). Also another reason I want to make this topic, I would like for you all brainstorm on what would be a good long term content when we're waiting for other content (like more story, etc) to be released, I want to have people to have a reason to keep subscribing. The weekly loot while I understand the intention I feel makes content seem a lot less to do? Also I wouldn't want to see something like Eureka again (though hydatos was pretty interesting).

My idea is basically a mega deep dungeon, but I like to see what you all can come up with too.

[Gurney]

This was called Nysul isle in FFXI. It was fun you had 30 minutes to complete as many floors with different objectives. Usually you could only do 10 floors in the 30 minutes. Your progress was saved every 5 floors. so if you cleared 7 floors in 30 minutes and timed out your progress was saved to the last 5th floor you cleared. Every 20 floors was a boss fight where you could get gear from. They did another version where the floor jumps could be 1 to 5 floors and every so often get a free floor to keep going up. It was really fun.

[Kaliesto]

This was called Nysul isle in FFXI. It was fun you had 30 minutes to complete as many floors with different objectives. Usually you could only do 10 floors in the 30 minutes. Your progress was saved every 5 floors. so if you cleared 7 floors in 30 minutes and timed out your progress was saved to the last 5th floor you cleared. Every 20 floors was a boss fight where you could get gear from. They did another version where the floor jumps could be 1 to 5 floors and every so often get a free floor to keep going up. It was really fun.

Really! That is interesting! I never played FFXI, but that sounds pretty neat.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Also another reason I want to make this topic, I would like for you all brainstorm on what would be a good long term content when we're waiting for other content (like more story, etc) to be released, I want to have people to have a reason to keep subscribing. The weekly loot while I understand the intention I feel makes content seem a lot less to do? Also I wouldn't want to see something like Eureka again (though hydatos was pretty interesting).

My idea is basically a mega deep dungeon, but I like to see what you all can come up with too.

this seems like a reworked idea of Deep Dungeon/Relic Weapon/Eureka content, which I applaud you attempting to create. What lost my support of this idea is the 100 floors RNG. What you call "spends weeks to finish" sounds like "time wasted because I lost to RNG and/or strangers not even trying to complete the content". That's ultimately why I stopped doing PotD/HoH after getting the base rewards I wanted (hair styles).

Eureka I consider differently bc my progress was mine and mine alone, and some days I could decide to join the train and others I could solo light farm. And the Baldesion Arsenal was the most unique experience Ive had in FFxiv and very memorable.

And if you're referring to savage weekly loot, its now week 5 or 6 since its started and theres still so much gear to get so I'm not really sure what you mean.

[Kaliesto]

this seems like a reworked idea of Deep Dungeon/Relic Weapon/Eureka content, which I applaud you attempting to create. What lost my support of this idea is the 100 floors RNG. What you call "spends weeks to finish" sounds like "time wasted because I lost to RNG and/or strangers not even trying to complete the content". That's ultimately why I stopped doing PotD/HoH after getting the base rewards I wanted (hair styles).

Eureka I consider differently bc my progress was mine and mine alone, and some days I could decide to join the train and others I could solo light farm. And the Baldesion Arsenal was the most unique experience Ive had in FFxiv and very memorable.

And if you're referring to savage weekly loot, its now week 5 or 6 since its started and theres still so much gear to get so I'm not really sure what you mean.

I meant like weekly content being a short and sweet thing, but afterwards there isn't much else to do in within the week, feels like a big void at times but just for people who are already caught up with previous content and left with nothing to do really. Basically my idea was something that can at least last weeks rather than within just a couple days out of the week when you want to have some kind of adventure rather than just going back to doing mini-games, crafting, etc.

Least something worthwhile to break the repetition, but not be very boring either. I didn't consider some of the good aspects of Eureka, maybe it can be worked into somehow, the main thing about Eureka to me was how repetitive and predictable it got until Hydatos came out. The Deep Dungeon idea I had in my head was in hope to break such repetition because it won't always be the same experience each time, the original Deep Dungeons were on the right track but I felt it didn't reach their full potential at times.


I admit that maybe the Dark Souls side of me would love to see this, but idk how my idea would fly with alot of people.

If the RNG is a issue then I guess would be the better alternative?

[Nora_of_Mira]

Least something worthwhile to break the repetition, but not be very boring either. I didn't consider some of the good aspects of Eureka, maybe it can be worked into somehow, the main thing about Eureka to me was how repetitive and predictable it got until Hydatos came out. The Deep Dungeon idea I had in my head was in hope to break such repetition because it won't always be the same experience each time, the original Deep Dungeons were on the right track but I felt it didn't reach their full potential at times.

I'm of the crowd that actually loved Eureka, except for the Light farms that I only did what was required to upgrade my weapon and stopped. Pagos was a slow, painful journey but Pyros mixed it up thanks to the Mnemes and Hydatos introduced better Mnemes and interesting strats. Leveling to max involved either fate farming, or figuring out how to kill massive chains of mobs w/o dying, which was pretty fun figuring out. BA was as intense as Savage but shared across 48-56 people. The content was essentially 24-main raid level of difficulty, but the death penalty made it super tense and rewarding. Upgrading your gear with the crystals (or w/e they were, i forget) was also rewarding bc it made future progress in BA a lot easier.

Eureka gets a bad rap, but as someone who dove deep into Eureka every time a new section was released, it shares a lot similarity which what you're suggesting. Meaningful communication with strangers, the repetition wore off every 1-2 levels (as you were forced to kill different mobs) and all of it amounted to a one-of-a-kind dungeon that was super fun to go through/learn its gimmicks but also rewarded great stuff: Unique glam (both armor and weapons), decent chunk of gil (thanks to the glam and minions), and of course the Ozma mount. All of which was playable during Raid downtime, which was super nice and kept me playing well after raiding season was over.

for me personally, i dont think anything will top the Baldesion arsenal as memorable content in this game.

[Nariel]

snip

I don't even believe its possible considering how the game work, but anyway I hate RNG dungeon setup and find deep dungeon/eureka astronomicaly boring so its a huge nope for me.

But its seems like a pretty well thought idea nonetheless.

[PyurBlue]

The Deep Dungeon concept could be expanded to be made more interesting and I like some of the ideas presented, but not everything.

This dungeon does not have a party formation, so basically anyone you come across you'll have to stick together to survive, and you can only be defeated in combat only a certain amount of times or else you suffer a penalty of sorts.

No party is a really big disincentive. I don't really want a MMO to force you into solo content or make partying with friends hard. It also brings balance into the question as some classes are vastly better at soloing then others. I'm also not really into having a death limit, it just seems kind of arbitrary.

The save feature also would become more important due to the size and the time it will take to complete it.

The save feature is something I'd want to see outright removed if I'm honest.

Also upon completing this Deep Dungeon the first time you'll earn one piece of unique gear that will give you a slight advantage with special stats against the monsters only for this Deep Dungeon.

Why not keep the current system where there is no gear? It would cut down on inventory bloat. Also when it comes to endgame I'm weary of overgearing. I'd rather see the content balanced for a certain amount of stats and then everything sticks to about that level. It keeps the challenge up and makes things interesting.

Also another reason I want to make this topic, I would like for you all brainstorm on what would be a good long term content when we're waiting for other content (like more story, etc) to be released, I want to have people to have a reason to keep subscribing. The weekly loot while I understand the intention I feel makes content seem a lot less to do? Also I wouldn't want to see something like Eureka again (though hydatos was pretty interesting).

My idea is basically a mega deep dungeon, but I like to see what you all can come up with too.

I think something like a mega deep dungeon is a pretty good idea for endgame content. Something challenging, non repetitive, and lengthy. Personally I like to lean away from some of the deep dungeon's non combat mechanics (traps, floor status, pomanders) but I guess there could be multiple tiers with different options and mechanics.

[Noitems]

I like the concept behind it, but I'd also like something that imo channels the feeling of one of the most enjoyable content in the game. Baldesion Arsenal. I'm talking about the actual instance itself, not the journey to get there.

I'd say have a set of Deep Dungeons that are scaled to fit the amount of players going in them. Like a set of them for four people, and a set for eight. The floors being RNG I'm not a fan of so instead have it be static, each floor has it's own layouts and hazards and takes the risk of roaming mobs into account.

I think it would be fun for the sake of progression that completing a set amount of floors (Let's say 50) with a four person, unlocks a route(or an item you can use) to enter the eight person DD. You'd then go into it either with your current party or head in for a queue and then the eight people would move through the dungeon. The risks would be heavier, maybe have some cool puzzle challenges throughout that split the party in two. They solve objectives to help the other party move forward and vice versa.

After getting through the set amount of floors in there it'll open the path to real deal, the Deepest Dungeon. Where it grows to be something around 24-56 person instance which channels the essence of BA. Treat rezzing the same way as normal DD's, but just make it scaled to match BA's elemental level system. So that way the risk is there in terms of things hitting super hard and of a timer. They could fight specific bosses, solve even crazier puzzles with that many people, but have this huge sense of unity throughout it. But the big thing would be having a normal queue system for it instead of the nightmare that was getting everyone in for BA.

To me I think making a deep dungeon (if Shadowbringers is the focus) is using the ruins of the Qitana Ravel as a good layout for it. It gives off the huge sense of adventure especially going through the main scenario there.

[Verlyn]

I think making the Deep Dungeons more viable as longterm endgame content can be simple. Some suggestions for this:
-One lobby for all three dungeons. Or at least an NPC that lets you queue for them in every major town (Khloe desperately needs this treatment too, considering Wondrous Tails maintains relevance).
-More floor variants. Like, a lot more. More traps, minibosses, more rng-related things to keep the runs spicy.
-Difficulty-settings on your save. Normal for a more pug-friendly experience. Hard intended for premades.
-Monster drops that can enhance your aetheric weapon/armor. Like maybe they drop materia with interesting passive effects that only work on the aetheric weapon/armor. Let you fuse and upgrade them with currency dropped in-dungeon. This gives you more a of horizontal progression when you are level capped (which is constant).

Basically, just give there more to do than exp and story, reduce the tedium, and it will have longevity. Right now, its purpose is too narrow and there's so little variety that running it is boring as sin.