Please make tanks more unique by making the 30% damage reduction skills different

[Samsta]

All the tanks have access to rampart already, they don't need to have another, stronger copypaste skill, especially with all the other cooldowns they have already. It just feels stupid to have same skills with different names like that, either make them completely different or attach other effects to them like vengeance already has.

[Kemiko]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that mitigation for tanks don't need to be, or even feel, different. It's the other portions of their kit that should change how they feel. Mitigation should be straight forward and effective. I already take issue eith the tanks third mitigation being awful for trying to be unique. Dark Mind is only situationally useful and WAR's mitigation shares a recast timer with Nascent Flash on top of its super low duration.

I'd rather the mitigation tools be useful and effective across all tanks than devs screw them up for the sake of feeling unique.

[Samsta]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that mitigation for tanks don't need to be, or even feel, different. It's the other portions of their kit that should change how they feel. Mitigation should be straight forward and effective. I already take issue eith the tanks third mitigation being awful for trying to be unique. Dark Mind is only situationally useful and WAR's mitigation shares a recast timer with Nascent Flash on top of its super low duration.

I'd rather the mitigation tools be useful and effective across all tanks than devs screw them up for the sake of feeling unique.

I understand your point but I disagree; I think damage mitigation is still a huge part of tanking and class identity. Copypaste skills are stupid, either move them to role actions or make them different. There is nothing wrong with some tanks being better at mitigation in some parts of the game and other tanks being better in some other parts as long as you can clear all content with all of them without too much hurdles.

The 30% dmg reductions abilities are not copypasted Rampart! If you have to mitigate multiple tankbusters in succession on min iLvl, Rampart just wouldn't cut it. And most "short recast" CDs (e.g. Heart of Stone) have a way too short duration to mitigate multiple tankbusters.

There is only one piece of content in the current game which requires something like this and it's your example, and in there every class with maybe the exception of paladin doesn't really "need" the 30% reduction, rampart+other cd (thrill of battle/camouflage etc.) for earthen anguish and then pop the shorther cd for megalith. That is not even the point though, I am not saying get rid of them, but make them unique.

[Shurrikhan]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that mitigation for tanks don't need to be, or even feel, different. It's the other portions of their kit that should change how they feel. Mitigation should be straight forward and effective. I already take issue eith the tanks third mitigation being awful for trying to be unique. Dark Mind is only situationally useful and WAR's mitigation shares a recast timer with Nascent Flash on top of its super low duration.

I'd rather the mitigation tools be useful and effective across all tanks than devs screw them up for the sake of feeling unique.

When Warrior had increased health and healing rather than flat mitigation, or made use of self-healing and gauge-based on-GCD mitigation over purely cooldowns, was it somehow devoid of parity? Was it unable to perform to the same extent or job viability held by DRK and PLD just because its methods differed?

Having so many of the same exact skills across all tanks makes for a more obvious balance, but not necessarily any tighter a balance to the overall kit (at least, short of making every skill identical to every other tanks').

[ArianeEwah]

The 30% dmg reductions abilities are not copypasted Rampart! If you have to mitigate multiple tankbusters in succession on min iLvl, Rampart just wouldn't cut it. And most "short recast" CDs (e.g. Heart of Stone) have a way too short duration to mitigate multiple tankbusters.

e.g. Titan Maximum Dual Earthen Fist/Earthen Anguish tankbuster into Megalith tankbuster. On min iLvl Rampart is not enough, even 30% would barely keep you alive (I remember the first week runs we had, even with Rampart+Nebula I dropped to ~10% with AA follow-up).

You need 30% mitigation, how you're going to map them is up to your party/tank.

Sentinel had to be changed to compete with the other "higher mitigation" abilities. 40% was overkill, and 3 min recast was way too long. It's a relict from HW where PLD struggled against multiple magical tankbusters because of Sentinels high recast time.

Vengeance had to be nerfed because it was overpowered. And honestly, they should remove the spike effect and just buff a few skills instead.

[shao32]

i rather preffer they make tanks more unique by removing rampart and bring back shadow skin and foresight while creating something for GNB and focus on make tanks overall gameplay more unique and stop copy pasting mechanics on almost all of them.

[Tex_Mex]

Just for reference, here are the tanking CD's listed with their comparative abilities from other tanks:

90 sec CD 20% DMG Reduction - Rampart (All Tanks)

120 sec CD 30% DMG Reduction - Sentinel (PLD), Vengeance (WAR), Shadow Wall (DRK), Nebula (GNB)

3rd Personal Mitigation Skill - ??? (PLD), Thrill of Battle (WAR), Dark Mind (DRK), Camouflage (GNB)

Short CD Personal Mitigation Skill - Shelltron (PLD), Raw Intuition (WAR), The Blackest Night (DRK), Heart of Stone (GNB)
Short CD Secondary Target Mitigation Skill - Intervention (PLD), Nascent Flash (WAR), The Blackest Night (DRK), Heart of Stone (GNB)

Self Heal - Clemency (PLD), Equilibrium (WAR), Abyssal Drain (DRK), Aurora (GNB)

Invulnerability Skill - Hallowed Ground (PLD), Holmgang (WAR), Living Dead (DRK), Superbolide (GNB)

Group Mitigation - Divine Veil(PLD), Shake it Off (WAR), Dark Missionary (DRK), Heart of Light (GNB)

Additional Utility - Passage of Arms/Cover (PLD), ??? (WAR), ??? (DRK), ??? (GNB)



I write all of this out because I like to see the whole picture when it comes to defensive abilities. Yes, the 20% and 30% mitigation abilities are basically the exact same, but the rest of the defensive kits are quite different, while also being fairly well balanced. Sure, there are some below average skills like Dark Mind, Abyssal Drain, and Living Dead (funnily enough all DRK abilities) that probably need to be looked at, but DRK also has arguably the best defensive skill in the game (The Blackest Night). IMO, the devs have done a really good job of balancing the tanks both offensively and defensively in this expansion. There are definitely some issues to be looked at, but their current design philosophy is pretty good.

[whiskeybravo]

I wish they would too so people would stop putting Vengeance on a pedestal.

Throwing balance aside momentarily for off the cuff ideas - Paladin could get a passive blocking increase for Sentinel, resuscitating the old Bulwark effect. Dark Knight could perhaps get a siphon effect (HP/MP/or both), many DRK players have asked for some sort of drain/siphon inherent in their lore. For Gunbreaker, maybe something like Vengeance but more unique, say, it accumulates damage intake over the duration and explodes for a singe tick of reflect damage at the end.

Of course, Vengeance isn't THAT great, it's just 1 degree better than the others. Any additional benefit from making the other 30% similar is going to be pretty weak / marginally better than it was without. It's not even a cherry on top, it's more like the juice of the cherry dripping on to the whipped cream, it merely gives it a little color.

[Xenosan]

The 3min CDs can be identical, but they should using that spared time honing down on the 3rd mitigation skills and self heals..

Some could be more refined or made more characteristic of the job/playstyle, since these actions don't really factor as much

[Lyth]

You can make them identical if you like, but don't change the animations. Shadowskin was an amazing animation. I don't want to see the same happen to Shadow Wall.