Every inconvenience is a challenge.

[Sortis]

well yes and no there should be all of it, less your saying you want to "Beat" a mmo? your not meant to beat a mmo, your meant to play in it's world. if they remove literally all grinds you only have left a offline game, do you want to start paying monthly for offline games? i think your the sadistic masochist one here.

Why are you so threatened by World of Warcraft? lol This guy didn't bring up WoW at any part of his argument, and you somehow gleaned from his rather large post that had nothing to do with WoW that he is talkin about turning this game into WoW? WoWophobe much?

[Nakiamiie]

Because nothing says "fond," "fun," and "nostalgic," like sitting in Whitegate for hours waiting for a party to happen, only to get 7/8 and have the party disband because the tank went afk.
Because nothing says "amazing," like trying to do old content to progress the MAIN STORY that no existing player wants to do over.
Because nothing says "fantastic," like farming for six hours to afford gil to buy ammunition for your Corsair.
Because nothing says "engaging," like sitting in the same spot in Qufim leveling for hours of hours of mindless grind.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Stop white knighting XI and its "inconveniences," which were more like fortresses of agony and masochism.

Since this person worked on Star Wars Galaxies, I can only imagine his idea of "inconveniences" is vastly different from what you (coming from XI) have.

I never felt incapable of doing anything in Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE game ruining update.) SWG clearly balanced "gameplay" inconveniences appropriately, whereas XI just had inconvenience over inconvenience over inconvenience over a massive inconceivable system. There were plenty of times in XI where I just flat gave up and rage closed the client because I didn't want to deal with the stupidity of the game and it's "inconveniences."

XIV should look to XI for one thing: what not to become.

There should be barriers of skill. Not barriers of tedium, monotony, and TIME.

While FFXIV does lack in this area, Tibian is right in that many of the inconveniences from FFXI weren't really the kind that Mr. Koster (or myself) would want to see again.

Some examples of bad inconveniences:

- Overly-specific party mechanics and poor methods by which to form said parties.
- Content which has been de-incentivized to a point that it's more of a barrier than an interesting element of the game.
- Lack of diverse gameplay choices shoehorning players into dull and monotonous activities.

Inconveniences should create adventure, and none of the above do this. By contrast, here are some inconveniences from prior MMOs which I feel worked well:

- Quest objectives not being displayed on a map. Granted this one is pretty irrelevant with today's internet consumption, but developers have resorted to lazier quest/mission instructions because they no longer need to inform the player in order to guide them. As a result, players don't even have the choice of not looking up the objective location.
- Travel times. Requiring a time investment for travel keeps the world relevant and gives developers another area to design content, such as the FFXI boat encounters or the island chains in EverQuest.
- Dangerous areas acting as barriers. This is even less problematic in the age of miniscule death penalties, so why can't we see areas that require stealthy maneuvering? Kithicor Woods in EQ1 was a fantastic zone, becoming a literal death trap at night. I also enjoy that hybridization of high level and low level content, where you aren't guaranteed your safety because a zone is specifically designed for levels 1-5. It also causes high level players to cross paths with low levels more often, and makes the leveling-up game seem more lively as a result.

Both Tibian and Lior are right, my opinion is similar to theirs.

Things like these (thanks Lior):

Quest objectives not being displayed on a map... (In FFXIV's case it should be vague on the map, not always being at the centre of a small yellow circle *winks at the devs* -- make the circle bigger, the target is randomly found inside that circle, don't only use a yellow circle to highlight a zone to show us a target's location [print footsteps on the ground the player has to follow -- also partly shown on the map, use dynamic markings on static world objects, etc.])

... was a fantastic zone, becoming a literal death trap at night. I also enjoy that hybridization of high level and low level content, where you aren't guaranteed your safety because a zone is specifically designed for levels 1-5. It also causes high level players to cross paths with low levels more often, and makes the leveling-up game seem more lively as a result. (We had that, before some players started complaining they were not able to be mindless zombies while grinding because they would sometimes aggro a higher level monster walking around. We should never be able to be mindless zombies while grinding... or (really) watch a movie at the same time.)

... is the kind of "inconvenience" that makes a game interesting. Inconveniences for the players controlled by the developers (content, not the lack of), not inconveniences for the players and developers caused by system limitations.

[Jynx]

There are tons of way to add inconvient content but make it exciting at the same time, or rewarding.

Examples:

-Earning your teleport crystals
-Having to explore you map to reveal it
-observing monster to see if they are agressive or not, how strong they are (and so on)

There are tons of ways to make the game "Inconvient" for the player but it needs to offer some sort of pay-off in the end wether its a "Have a cookie" moment or a long term "I did it" hurrah. There needs to be a balance within the system to catter to the new market that can't handle actually doing things, and the people who want a challenge (Not only in battle and instances) but in exploration and overall gameplay.

[Crica]

We, as humans, feel most alive when faced with danger and threat.

That is such bunk - you can not speak for everyone.

I feel most alive when I do things I enjoy, and things I enjoy do not include danger or threat.

Your "fact" has just been disproven.

L2realize not every person feels the same as you.

[Peptaru]

Idk, i tend to agree with the statement we, as humans, feel most alive when faced by danger and threat (edit for spellin error). Feeling alive and feeling a rush of endorphines or general happiness are all different things. Isn't someone's life most valuable to them when they're about to lose it? Saying that anything is a video-game is actually dangerous or threatening is silly, but i've been in situations that, although stressful only in the game, have gotten my heart pumpin faster lol

[Xoo]

That is such bunk.

Realize this is also your opinion, which is worth 100% of what mine is.

[Jynx]

L2realize not every person feels the same as you.

You are aware there is a big difference from feeling "Alive" and having fun right?

I think the point they are illustrating is that adrenaline rush when we are in a "Fight or flight" scenario, wether in real life or in a simulated world the response can be triggered by a tense or stressfull situation. Of course there are people who can't cope with "Fight, flight" reaction and crumple under pressure.

But generally what most people find to be a "Thrill" is something that sends their brain into a chain of hyperactivity. Something you get excited about wether it's that really good part of the book you just got to and you can't put it down, or tanking Ifrit with red HP.

Whatever the situation that sets that off, is usually "Fun" (Please note the use of USUALLY) after the fact wether it was stressfull at the time being, it's the same reason people enjoy being scared the thrill, the excitement, the wonder of it all.

I think your misenterpreting the context of the quote.

Thousands of people "Enjoy" eating Pizza but I can't imagine alot who would say it made them feel "Alive" unless it was the first Pizza they have eaten after recovering from a 20 year comma or something.

[Peptaru]

Some people use worchestershire sauce on pizza! it makes them feel alive

[Jynx]

Some people use worchestershire sauce on pizza!

Oh my.....

[JakeRoon]

Okay so if inconvenience is fun, I suppose there are wackos out there who just LOVE to go to the D.M.V. everyday?

Or perhaps they go through Dallas Forth Worth Airport security measures on their days off for a laugh?

This is the dumbest most ridiculous game developer political schpeal I have ever heard, they guy is basically trying to sell the fact that many players found his game "not fun due to inconvenience".

I feel dumber for having read that article. I feel the rancid stink of media spin and prapaganda all over me.

Challenge =\= inconvenience ....sorry.....but no...you need your head examined.