Every inconvenience is a challenge.

[Answa]

You and SE must be on the same page, which I disagree with. It's a bit harsh and selfish to admit, but I don't want to play a game with the mentally obese. I want to play a game with people who can help themselves and don't whine when they have to put forth effort to get something done.

If you don't have the time for an MMO, because an MMO is naturally time-consuming, then don't play it. I don't know any other answer.

I think you're completely missing the point. Lux is not arguing for any side, she's calling for a balance--the duality of both easy and hard content--because we all want different things. This reminds me of the theme park analogy Yoshida used a lot some months ago.

[Xoo]

Complete ignorance. I cannot count how many times XI purists have used this as a type of "valid" argument because they cannot come with any logical or substantiating retort to statements being critical of XI.

Let me return your phrase to you and see how you enjoy it.

XIV isn't a game that has mindless tedium. You should learn this and go play XI and leave XIV alone.

Do I believe the above statement? No, because it is pure ignorance. Don't throw completely naive statements around without backing them up.

Maybe it's because it's 1am here and I'm tired, but I really have no idea what you were trying to state or infer with this post. Please rephrase. Thank you.

[RolandDebreton]

Woot every inconvenience a challenge! Like one of your players DCs at the beginning of Aurum so you exit to start over so everyone has a fresh start and you wait 12 minutes.... before reentry. What an awesome challenge!

[Lux_Rayna]

You and SE must be on the same page, which I disagree with. It's a bit harsh and selfish to admit, but I don't want to play a game with the mentally obese. I want to play a game with people who can help themselves and don't whine when they have to put forth effort to get something done.

If you don't have the time for an MMO, because an MMO is naturally time-consuming, then don't play it. I don't know any other answer.

Well it is selfish, but we are all selfish lol. Its because we are all selfish that SE has to try and figure out how to make most of us happy. Ppl like you will have to wait longer because "difficult" content always has to be balanced in last. The only measure of difficulty they have are the primal drops, and the new dungeons to some degree...but other than that nothing. It has to be that way though, at least until the system is solidly in place.

[Peptaru]

You referenced learning your first language, not a language. Even something as simple as a refugee needing to learn a second language would be much more complicated and may not serve them well due to social stigmas about refugees where they're forced to move to. Having some form of communication is wonderful, but you can function without it. I wouldn't want to, but its feasible.

I don't argue to argue, I argue because there is a worldwide "dumb things down and make them easier for everyone" attitude that happens in nearly every facet of everything anymore. Things that require more effort generally are more rewarding and should be. Cg if you don't want to learn physics, or something equivalently difficult to each person who reads, but there is a reason that physicists make better money than a lot of other people... reward for difficulty. Same with doctors and professors and so on. To see people who like difficulty constantly get screwed to cater to the lowest common denominator, while a growing necessity for businesses as idiots become more prevalent, absolutely makes my blood boil.

All that said, no games shouldn't be as hard as learning physics, that'd be outrageous, but everyone whining that everything is too hard and should be made childishly simplistic while maintaining the "good" rewards needs to be burned at the stake~ I'm goin Salem up in here! lol

[Xoo]

I think you're completely missing the point. Lux is not arguing for any side, she's calling for a balance--the duality of both easy and hard content--because we all want different things. This reminds me of the theme park analogy Yoshida used a lot some months ago.

My mistake. I took it that she was arguing what right I had to define the difference between difficult and easy - which in the end is completely subjective. It's interesting you use the theme park analogy; They make the boat ride for little kids and the backward triple-loop rollercoasters for big kids.

[Xoo]

Well it is selfish, but we are all selfish lol. Its because we are all selfish that SE has to try and figure out how to make most of us happy. Ppl like you will have to wait longer because "difficult" content always has to be balanced in last. The only measure of difficulty they have are the primal drops, and the new dungeons to some degree...but other than that nothing. It has to be that way though, at least until the system is solidly in place.

My only real trouble with this game as far as difficulty goes is the undoubtedly brainless process (not to say that I agree with the process being mindless) of the grind itself, and the superhuman powers it takes to actually put together a party to attend the event. That, and the existence of Powerleveling.

[weeble]

Because nothing says "fond," "fun," and "nostalgic," like sitting in Whitegate for hours waiting for a party to happen, only to get 7/8 and have the party disband because the tank went afk.

this happens to all mmo's that lose population or had a low pop to begin with, or bad times of day. truthfully i rarely had this many issues in ffxi, i spamed every tank looking or not looking and i got a tank. or i waited for the main needed classes for group to be lfg first b4 starting to put it together and this was only after 4years later of the game. u could get groups in seconds any other time prior.i started having these issues even in swtor after first 5months the server died out. warhammer forget it you can have some action once a day maybe for few hours.

Because nothing says "amazing," like trying to do old content to progress the MAIN STORY that no existing player wants to do over.
1. you probably started doing this said content when it was old, 2. theres a new mmo that comes out probably every quarter of every year. why are we destroying mmo's cause you want to come into a mmo years late and bitch you can't find people to do this stuff with. 3. it took work to do if it was too much for you then you really didn't want it that bad, shout, group and gather a group even if it takes all week. fun? not really but the content sure is when you get to do it though.

Because nothing says "fantastic," like farming for six hours to afford gil to buy ammunition for your Corsair.
that's what the class was, it was the more expensive to use cause you needed ammo, pick a different class if it's too much for you. farming is part of a mmo, least it should be, mmo's are supposed to take time, you don't play and toss it like a offline game.

Because nothing says "engaging," like sitting in the same spot in Qufim leveling for hours of hours of mindless grind.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

what is the difference between grinding or questing? nothing outside keeping them seperate at least gives everyone a choice to actually read the quests when they finally decide to go do the quests on them days they feel like doing them. grinding is part of all mmo, don't matter the form, it's there. if you don't want the grind then play offline games. most players don't want to pop the disc then toss it after a few months.

Stop white knighting XI and its "inconveniences," which were more like fortresses of agony and masochism.

they aren't white knighting XI, they just know what real mmo's were and always should be. yes they should be many a different mmo's even though they keep putting out the same crap. but all in all there still should be mmo's that stay true to grinds and inconveniences. they probably all realize how empty they are left with what is being put out now or notice that if the trend keeps going this way that mmo's won't even be enjoyable. i played more mmo's in past year then i did in 10years of mmo'ing. that can't be right.

Since this person worked on Star Wars Galaxies, I can only imagine his idea of "inconveniences" is vastly different from what you (coming from XI) have.

i agree with this, i think no matter how you look at it, they took difficulty all away and now some reject wants to say they want to give a little of what's been taken back. big deal, you can say something is hard like yoshi does but we all know he means it's hard for idiots and hard cause it's "Harder" then anything else. is like the government recalling all gold and then one day saying hey we going to give ya a gold coin. big woop.

I never felt incapable of doing anything in Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE game ruining update.) SWG clearly balanced "gameplay" inconveniences appropriately, whereas XI just had inconvenience over inconvenience over inconvenience over a massive inconceivable system. There were plenty of times in XI where I just flat gave up and rage closed the client because I didn't want to deal with the stupidity of the game and it's "inconveniences."


XIV should look to XI for one thing: what not to become.

so it should become like what wow? why is every wow player running back to wow even though theres a million clones out there. again mmo's should all be different, not all the same, some should also stick with there roots. ffxiv doesn't need to be ffxi but it surely doesn't need to be a mmo that pampers to players that don't realize they are playing a game and they are meant to die and be challenged. that they are paying monthly and it is meant to last years not months. if they didn't fail at launch i don't even think this would even be a question, servers would of been filled with like minded players and lots of them.

There should be barriers of skill. Not barriers of tedium, monotony, and TIME.

well yes and no there should be all of it, less your saying you want to "Beat" a mmo? your not meant to beat a mmo, your meant to play in it's world. if they remove literally all grinds you only have left a offline game, do you want to start paying monthly for offline games? i think your the sadistic masochist one here.

[ArnoMorley]

Waiting for a party in whitegate...

It's funny because back in ToAU FFXI there weren't enough hours in a day to play XI, then WoTG came along and exp become easy to solo which seems like a good thing but that was when the game became boring and I stopped playing.

People complained about claiming nms all the time, now I hear they've changed several nms to where you have to use an item to pop them. Killing placeholders for pop items was boring as hell, let's face it obtaining a pop item after killing 100 placeholders isn't the same as "Oh shit it's up! grab it!".

Sometimes a "balance" is still ruining what is fun about a game.

Players of FFXI have every right to be pissed, and really should be. Bunch of weak ass players slowly chipped away at our game until there was nothing left of it, XI is a joke now. Then there's XIV which should have been made for us, but is being made for a bunch of WoW fans. Meanwhile those of us who loved XI at it's peak don't really have a mmo we can enjoy anymore.

[Sortis]

Because nothing says "fond," "fun," and "nostalgic," like sitting in Whitegate for hours waiting for a party to happen, only to get 7/8 and have the party disband because the tank went afk.
Because nothing says "amazing," like trying to do old content to progress the MAIN STORY that no existing player wants to do over.
Because nothing says "fantastic," like farming for six hours to afford gil to buy ammunition for your Corsair.
Because nothing says "engaging," like sitting in the same spot in Qufim leveling for hours of hours of mindless grind.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Stop white knighting XI and its "inconveniences," which were more like fortresses of agony and masochism.

Since this person worked on Star Wars Galaxies, I can only imagine his idea of "inconveniences" is vastly different from what you (coming from XI) have.

I never felt incapable of doing anything in Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE game ruining update.) SWG clearly balanced "gameplay" inconveniences appropriately, whereas XI just had inconvenience over inconvenience over inconvenience over a massive inconceivable system. There were plenty of times in XI where I just flat gave up and rage closed the client because I didn't want to deal with the stupidity of the game and it's "inconveniences."

XIV should look to XI for one thing: what not to become.

There should be barriers of skill. Not barriers of tedium, monotony, and TIME.

THIS! Thank you for summing that up perfectly!