The Current State of Frontlines PvE, I mean PvP.

[Aramyth]

The current state of Frontline PvP is extremely odd and disheartening to true PvPers. The reason for this is because there is more PvE in PvP than PvP.

I normally play a healer in PvP, I love keeping my team mates alive while the other team tries to kill them.

The issue likes in the fact that people play Frontlines like it's a PvE battle. Whoever kills more ice in shatter or more "monsters" in secure wins. People purposely disengage PvP and run and hide equating to PvP matches that include more standing around than strategically fighting other players.

I mean check out this mentality:


People actually view fighting as a way to lose instead of a way to win.

Additionally, it's very difficult to make any plays as a small group to tip the fight in favour of your team since Frontlines favours the zerg and because of the time it takes to run anywhere on the map, even when mounted.

Changes need to happen.

[Arazehl]

I think making Frontline as a roulette is silly too. People queue into a frontline battle from the roulette df, not caring one way or the other. Win or lose they just want to do their rolos.

Any pvp I've experience in the past in other mmo's, was the kill or be killed and that was it. Looks like someone was just giving a rundown of the long and short of it. They are right, each time you are killed you are taking points from your team's score and giving to the team who just killed you. Frontline is more than a pissing contest between teams. In other words it's not about the killing which I find that's much of the mentality I've run across in frontline and which causes a team to fail. It takes team effort to tip the scales, some strategy and a bit of luck.

Sorry if you have slackers on your team

[Gula]

Yeah. When I first tried pvp, I was really thrown off because I wanted to, ya know, PVP.

For Shatter especially, if it's a match where most small ice heats at the start, people discourage filling the time between big ice with idling and camping said ice. That's not PVP. That's more akin to sitting by a timed node and keeping others away from it.

Seize and Secure are closer to actual PVP because people will come for your base/node and you have to defend it. However, because PVP is niche overall and the forum community thinks that being intuitive will lead to every bad experience they've had with PVP pile up in XIV, prepare for a lack of support.

[Divinemights]

I wouldn’t even bother with this small portion of individuals believe in false idea and likely won’t play Frontline after 5.1. I mean, there is also a thread complaining about battle fever. How are you complain about Battle Fever if Frontline is only about PvE. People can says whatever they want to say, it it not necessarily the truth

[Moonlite]

It is not arena it is objective based PvP. This is so weird a complaint. You don't need to kill players to capture the flag, you don't need to kill players when you hold a base, you don't need to kill players when doing some other objective game. Not that PvP is sport, but other games have you doing other stuff that is secondary and just as important to winning. FFXIV also does have a kill centric PvP.


Let us also take into consideration a player saying that. Probably has a pug, kind of a shitty team composition, proteams earlier that day got stomped, seen enough dps that can't focus on the healer while a competent control is going on a second healer. The best option and lowest common denominator is focus the objective and hope for a little luck as it is a 1vs1vs1. You have a premade or a bunch of quality players you have seen and trust stomping is way more fun. I haven't pvped in 2 years, but I see very few pvp titles or players that I would think have even 300 games. Getting the masses to hit giant blue glowing shards isn't a bad idea.

[Nova_Rox]

It is not arena it is objective based PvP. This is so weird a complaint. You don't need to kill players to capture the flag, you don't need to kill players when you hold a base, you don't need to kill players when doing some other objective game. Not that PvP is sport, but other games have you doing other stuff that is secondary and just as important to winning. FFXIV also does have a kill centric PvP.


Let us also take into consideration a player saying that. Probably has a pug, kind of a shitty team composition, proteams earlier that day got stomped, seen enough dps that can't focus on the healer while a competent control is going on a second healer. The best option and lowest common denominator is focus the objective and hope for a little luck as it is a 1vs1vs1. You have a premade or a bunch of quality players you have seen and trust stomping is way more fun. I haven't pvped in 2 years, but I see very few pvp titles or players that I would think have even 300 games. Getting the masses to hit giant blue glowing shards isn't a bad idea.

You do realize that the other players are also an objective, right? You gain high/fever which gives you an advantage. You gain points / they lose points. You REMOVE enemy players from the field making it easier to capture the big objectives.

So yeah, you don't NEED to kill players to capture a base...but it will be a halluva lot easier to take a base when your enemy is dead and they're getting longer and longer respawns.

Your second paragraph proves what I've been saying for YEARS now; the biggest issue with PvP is the community and the fact that they don't want to improve. Not sure how to fix that. SE pls nuke Eorzea again so that we can be reborn as a more PvP focused MMO.

[Aramyth]

You do realize that the other players are also an objective, right? You gain high/fever which gives you an advantage. You gain points / they lose points. You REMOVE enemy players from the field making it easier to capture the big objectives.

So yeah, you don't NEED to kill players to capture a base...but it will be a halluva lot easier to take a base when your enemy is dead and they're getting longer and longer respawns.

Your second paragraph proves what I've been saying for YEARS now; the biggest issue with PvP is the community and the fact that they don't want to improve. Not sure how to fix that. SE pls nuke Eorzea again so that we can be reborn as a more PvP focused MMO.

It's very peculiar to see the "PvP" mentality of the community in FFXIV.

Maybe SE needs to explain to people that killing others and taking points away from them is a way to win.

Many times I have seen the scores (approximately and /800 for simplicity) 720 vs 690 vs 680 and the two losing teams will give up because it's "pointless" even though the two teams that are "losing" could kill enemy players on the winning team, take their points and have a shot at the win.

It sucks.

[Moonlite]

It's very peculiar to see the "PvP" mentality of the community in FFXIV.

Maybe SE needs to explain to people that killing others and taking points away from them is a way to win.

Many times I have seen the scores (approximately and /800 for simplicity) 720 vs 690 vs 680 and the two losing teams will give up because it's "pointless" even though the two teams that are "losing" could kill enemy players on the winning team, take their points and have a shot at the win.

It sucks.

This happened all the time in shatter in 3.0. Both teams camping the first place team as they had no big ice and couldn't win with an objective. In a 72 man and with all the randoms to get 48 people move in the right direction now. You are way more optimistic. I scream at my monitor when you can't get 24 moving in the right way. With a score that close teams should be evenly matched. But if the score was 720vs690vs300 the 300 team has no point in helping second place. I call that Hand of Mercy farming time look for good spots to get decent kills.

You do realize that the other players are also an objective, right? You gain high/fever which gives you an advantage. You gain points / they lose points. You REMOVE enemy players from the field making it easier to capture the big objectives.

So yeah, you don't NEED to kill players to capture a base...but it will be a halluva lot easier to take a base when your enemy is dead and they're getting longer and longer respawns.

Your second paragraph proves what I've been saying for YEARS now; the biggest issue with PvP is the community and the fact that they don't want to improve. Not sure how to fix that. SE pls nuke Eorzea again so that we can be reborn as a more PvP focused MMO.

We had a more tight knit community. With a much higher quality of player 2.X to 3.X. We all remember the 2 hour ques during prime time, I will take the bad players and games over only getting a couple games a week in.


Players not wanting to improve is a truth, but also a scapegoat (IMOP). Three team PvP is poorly designed. At least in feast you can ask after why aren't we improving. Work on things to help. Some poor team the other day got all spawns inside caves right at the start of shatter. The only choice they had was to go to one spot and bunker down for the first wave. Instead they got stomped by both teams since they split after that they had 0 points and never recovered. Randoms are never going to be able to handle 1vs1vs1 and the pure randomness of it.



Also I notice people with certain titles that imply a certain level of PvP skill never try to get people to do the smarter thing. Just an observation, maybe its just to get what enjoyment you can from frontlines good or bad.

[awesomega]

It is not arena it is objective based PvP. This is so weird a complaint. You don't need to kill players to capture the flag, you don't need to kill players when you hold a base, you don't need to kill players when doing some other objective game. Not that PvP is sport, but other games have you doing other stuff that is secondary and just as important to winning. FFXIV also does have a kill centric PvP.


Let us also take into consideration a player saying that. Probably has a pug, kind of a shitty team composition, proteams earlier that day got stomped, seen enough dps that can't focus on the healer while a competent control is going on a second healer. The best option and lowest common denominator is focus the objective and hope for a little luck as it is a 1vs1vs1. You have a premade or a bunch of quality players you have seen and trust stomping is way more fun. I haven't pvped in 2 years, but I see very few pvp titles or players that I would think have even 300 games. Getting the masses to hit giant blue glowing shards isn't a bad idea.

While I agree with everything you said its completely different when a guy that consistently gets kills vs a dude trying to get his garo mount says that, and most of the time its the latter.

[Moonlite]

While I agree with everything you said its completely different when a guy that consistently gets kills vs a dude trying to get his garo mount says that, and most of the time its the latter.

Just be happy at the start of pvp in HW they all had macros with sound affects. Thankfully the few spammy people I have seen have short macro a line and easy to ignore.