Maybe RDM need....

[Mansion]

Gotta say I don't really see this at all tbh. For me the main takeaway from the loss of impact is how reliant it makes us on RNG not some idea of a "skill gap". Don't really see the point of feeling smug over the potential existence of people too dumb to utilize the job's procs. I mean those people are so far gone I can't even acknowledge them as red mage players so to me that's less skill gap and more just people not playing the job correctly at all.

The reason why RDM was stronger late in stormblood was because it did more damage comparatively not because it was more difficult or because it had more options for optimization. RDM today is almost exactly the same as RDM yesterday, just without the safety cushion of impact and with a lower amount of damage potential compared to other jobs especially BLM. I'd actually argue it's more the result of changes to other jobs more than changes to RDM.

Re-reading my post I indeed sound like a snob prick so sorry for that lol.

My point was that looking into RDM's kit from StB to ShB, and having mained it along with SMN for these two expansions, I feel StB RDM had a bit more room to push high numbers and I think it's because a good chunk of people I saw in things like dungeons or Eureka had trouble understanding how to optimize RDM's gameplay (which most of the time was linked to Impact, and more broadly to proc management). And I feel ShB ironed out this difference so it makes it even harder for optimal players to push out rewarding high numbers. I'm not saying there was a crazy difference, but that's how I experencied it. of course it's a fraction in the "everything wrong about RDM today", but I think it's worth mentioning it.

Now the main thing is that competition is hard for the ranged spot, especially when BLM is that far above every single ranged DPS, we know that well enough. I think it would be easier (as a band-aid fix mind) to nerf Enochian from 15% to 10-12% to make any other job buff more impactful (pun).

[SaberMaxwell]

Re-reading my post I indeed sound like a snob prick so sorry for that lol.

My point was that looking into RDM's kit from StB to ShB, and having mained it along with SMN for these two expansions, I feel StB RDM had a bit more room to push high numbers and I think it's because a good chunk of people I saw in things like dungeons or Eureka had trouble understanding how to optimize RDM's gameplay (which most of the time was linked to Impact, and more broadly to proc management). And I feel ShB ironed out this difference so it makes it even harder for optimal players to push out rewarding high numbers. I'm not saying there was a crazy difference, but that's how I experencied it. of course it's a fraction in the "everything wrong about RDM today", but I think it's worth mentioning it.

Now the main thing is that competition is hard for the ranged spot, especially when BLM is that far above every single ranged DPS, we know that well enough. I think it would be easier (as a band-aid fix mind) to nerf Enochian from 15% to 10-12% to make any other job buff more impactful (pun).

What you're not considering with regards to RDM optimization is now Red Mage effectively has two rotations it's expected to weave between almost on the fly as the fight and your mana counts demand: the 110s Rotation, where Manafication is popped off cooldown, and the 120s Rotation where Manafication is lined up with Embolden.

In the 120s rotation, your first manafication after the opener uses the 110s Rotation's rules. The advantage of the 120s rotation is that your combos will be under raid buffs, but it's harder to pull off; you need to know what skills to use to control your mana, and when it really needs controlled (whether it's better to overcap or to use ST Moulinet). You need to understand what opener you're using (5-8 is my preferred, for example), and how it interacts with these rotations, because the opener you run will effectively decide what your mana counts are going to look like through the fight. Finally, you need to understand how these rotations will interact with the fight.

Careless usage of manafication will lead to overcapping, and in the worst case scenarios, you can deprive yourself of a huge chunk of mobility in a very important part of the game.

There's a lot under the hood of Red Mage, it's just easy to pick up the basics of the job.

was going to chime in but you're doing gods work. i'll just watch on this one

Thanks! I do my best

[Laphael]

Never understood people who argue instantly against DPS gains for RDM.

Almost nobody is arguing against dps gains for RDM.
Most argue agianst deleting utility for a dps gain.
Instead RDM needs a simple potency buff in 5.1. to bring its rdps much closer (not on par) with blm.
Same with SMN.

[Drayos]

Almost nobody is arguing against dps gains for RDM.
Most argue agianst deleting utility for a dps gain.
Instead RDM needs a simple potency buff in 5.1. to bring its rdps much closer (not on par) with blm.
Same with SMN.

No if u read in several posts on RDM u do have people arguing RDM deserves to be lowest dps

From people arguing “RDM would make others irrelevant if it carry’s prog tools and high dps” to “RDM is too easy to play to be considered something that should be viable competitively”

There are people advocating against buffs to RDM

Tbh I’d be surprised if they do buff RDM not because I don’t think it needs it, but sheerly because it’s still said to be the strongest progression choice. Which seems to be it’s concept and nicht.

And even if we are, I think we will just 3/4s of the jobs also buffed which will make the same gap just at a higher dps gauge

[Capn_Goggles]

Now the main thing is that competition is hard for the ranged spot, especially when BLM is that far above every single ranged DPS, we know that well enough. I think it would be easier (as a band-aid fix mind) to nerf Enochian from 15% to 10-12% to make any other job buff more impactful (pun).

How about we stop suggesting nerfs to one of the few DPS jobs performing how it should this expansion?

[Katie_Kitty]

How about we stop suggesting nerfs to one of the few DPS jobs performing how it should this expansion?

What on earth makes you think BLM is perform the way it should rather than better than it should?

[Capn_Goggles]

What on earth makes you think BLM is perform the way it should rather than better than it should?

Because it consistently puts out enough DPS to compete with the rDPS of other jobs at higher levels of play, and not by a particularly egregious margin. Heck, Samurai should be putting out roughly the same numbers in a sane world, and it just might in 5.1 after the shoha rework.

[Rasikko]

RDM does not need to lose Vercure or Verraise to justify buffing it.

There's no real point in removing either of them anyway. Vercure is not as "strong" as it was before (or GCD cures to begin with) and RDM can raise people up to what 3 times now?

What on earth makes you think BLM is perform the way it should rather than better than it should?

According to most BLMs here, it's in the best spot it has ever been in, I don't see how it can be better than it is now other than making it a broken job. Add tier V spells with 400 potency and don't require Enochian >_>? Also it's baby'd by Yoshida..

[Capn_Goggles]

According to most BLMs here, it's in the best spot it has ever been in, I don't see how it can be better than it is now other than making it a broken job. Add tier V spells with 400 potency and don't require Enochian >_>? Also it's baby'd by Yoshida..

I think they were trying ask why I thought it was reasonably powerful and not overpowered. You're right though, BLM is definitely in the best spot it has ever been in, partially because of the 1% role buff, but mostly because it actually brings enough personal DPS to justify bringing it over another job that just buffs everyone. Also, any BLM player worth their salt will tell you that the job has been anything BUT babied, what you're seeing is basically the result of 3 whole expansions' worth of small but good QoL changes finally coming together, but it took a VERY long and painful time for it to get to this point.

[SaberMaxwell]

There's no real point in removing either of them anyway. Vercure is not as "strong" as it was before (or GCD cures to begin with) and RDM can raise people up to what 3 times now?

RDM's MP problems were fixed so they're back to Stormblood Rez Dispenser status. Yay...

Also, any BLM player worth their salt will tell you that the job has been anything BUT babied, what you're seeing is basically the result of 3 whole expansions' worth of small but good QoL changes finally coming together, but it took a VERY long and painful time for it to get to this point.

This, basically. I can't find the quote but I recall in an interview at some point they talked about how they worked hard to intentionally not baby BLM just because it was Yoshi-P's job precisely because they knew if they did then the community might not react well. It led to an inverse where BLM was almost ignored because it was Yoshi-P's job.