Maybe RDM need....

[SaberMaxwell]

No, it really wouldn't and if anything the developers would just nerf RDM output even more for the non DPS utility. If we needed 3 healers in a raid we'd have them.

[Kabooa]

No, it really wouldn't and if anything the developers would just nerf RDM output even more for the non DPS utility. If we needed 3 healers in a raid we'd have them.

Ehhhhh it depends. Maybe attaching it to the damage they deal and then giving them a focus target mechanic. Everytime they deal damage they heal the focus ally target, or just the nearest ally if none. Combine this with Embolden just being All Damage and I'd say that makes a pretty compelling case.

[Capn_Goggles]

Ehhhhh it depends. Maybe attaching it to the damage they deal and then giving them a focus target mechanic. Everytime they deal damage they heal the focus ally target, or just the nearest ally if none. Combine this with Embolden just being All Damage and I'd say that makes a pretty compelling case.

I don't think RDM needs more utility, I think the utility RDM offers needs to be a lot better. Verraise is fine since it's good for learning fights and is clutch in casual content; vercure is an absolute lame-duck excuse of an ability since you're sacrificing DPS for a crappy two-bit heal in an expansion where oGCD healing is absolutely bonkers, and Embolden is pointlessly restrictive and the decay on it is completely unnecessary while not actually making the ability itself more interesting. At the end of the day the most important things for a DPS job are if it's enjoyable to play and if it brings the damage, all of the other stuff is just garnish.

[MPNZ]

Chain reaction (fusion spells) might be interesting. Like, "vercure>veraero II> auto-chain-reaction -vermedica-" or "verfire> veraero> acr flame hurricane".

[Wayfinder3]

Not that this is really the core of the thread, but I don't think RDM should be getting anything else from the WHM side. A role action like Erase was perfect, because it was given to all the casters. We can't keep having more WHM tools in the kit, than BLM. Where is the balance that RDM is supposed to represent. Best I could come up with for a new BLM based skill in the RDM kit is a new Manawall.

Manawall - creates a shield on target party member or self and all those within 6 Yalm for 10% of their max health. Cool down of 90 seconds. Duration 15 seconds.

[edit: Thinking about it more I think id rather manawall protect 15% of targets hp and 15% to the rdm. Like dragon sight it could be used on self for just 15% for the rdm for solo or if no party member is close enough.]

Fills rdms survival niche, while allowing support. Weaker than Manaward, but brings it's own advantages. Vercure, VerRaise and Manawall and addle would be their support kit, no real need for an ogcd heal in my mind.

I'd just move engagement to 40 and just slap this in its place, but you could honestly do that with any support skill. The only downside is that we'd be feeding even more into the notion that RDM does less damage because it has support. Where is the line where our DPS is okay and having actual support is okay? If its not a huge tradeoff, I'd take it, but I'm not gonna give up a large chunk of damage for a support ability that will either cost me damage or be on a long cool down.

Idk about this, rdm could get more healing tools but they just shouldn’t be taxed heavily for them. BLM is pretty much determined to be better than RDM in Damage so there is no reason in holding back on the identity we’re stuck with. RDM having a cure and raise isn’t a bad thing, the devs and community just don’t know how to balance the job. Some players actually think it’s fair for RDM to be the lowest dps even though it’s a caster dps and should at the very least be stronger than DNC and BRD. Realistically, NIN shouldn’t be stronger than RDM either as RDM has the weakest of offensive contributing utility. So assuming all jobs are balanced close enough for the 1% party buff to properly represent ALL possible combinations without triple dipping roles or double dipping jobs.

RDPS Balance should look something like this
SAM = BLM > MNK> MCH = NIN > SMN > RDM = DRG > BRD > DNC

ADPS SAM = BLM > MCH> MNK > DRG > SMN = RDM > NIN > BRD > DNC.

Ranged could also use refresh back and lucid dreaming should be nerfed back to 120 secs as this would be strong enough raid utility to put the role back in the map as well as some slight potency buffs to bridge the gap between them and the expected party buffs. I’d like to find a way to dissuade playing compositions with too many personal dps. In my mind, compositions shouldn’t be the over stacking of Synergy or selfish but I’d rather stacking synergy than selfish.

[Wayfinder3]

I should elaborate more, This game seems have subcategories for the roles with tanks being a bit more weird in this regard so I’ll leave them out

No Utility: BLM SAM MCH WHM

These 4 have no utility and while they should be stronger overall, they shouldn’t work well together(not including WHM) parties shouldn’t want to run a comp of SAM BLM and MCH because that puts the synergy dps into a situation where they are near pointless as such, it really should be 1 to a raid to increase the benefits of select synergy dps.

Mid Utility: MNK DRG BRD SMN and SCH

Though it pains me to put BRD here, this is where it has to go, these jobs bring higher ADPS but mediocre pdps to justify their place, in some compositions you may prefer them over the No utility jobs but their utility should be more limited i.e brotherhood or weaker I.e Devotion. Defensive utility is best on this type of dps

High Utility DNC RDM AST NIN

These jobs should be the lowest of their respective roles but not weaker than them do to their contribution and they should have MUCH higher rdps contribution. At least 1500 on average to make up for their disparities with SMN and RDM probably being more or less the same with a slight edge for SMN. Defensive utility shouldn’t be taxed too highly here as they’ve been taxed hard enough for having higher offensive utility. At least 1 or 2 of these should be desired in parties for the damage the provide to the entire raid. (Embolden NEEDS to work with casters and healers for rdm to want to be in a party with them)

Ideal compositions should look like these
SAM DRG RDM DNC
BLM NIN RDM BRD
MCH DRG DNC SMN

All 3 types are represented as effectively as they should be, while this might not be perfect, this is the template for how I would strive to achieve better balance, even if we need to change the way some abilities work to do it. 1 Personal, 1-2 Mid 1-2 High Util

The current obstacle SE faces is that there isn’t any countermeasures from sticking the highest dps dealing jobs on the Sam team and blowing the other compositions out of the water

[Katie_Kitty]

Chain reaction (fusion spells) might be interesting. Like, "vercure>veraero II> auto-chain-reaction -vermedica-" or "verfire> veraero> acr flame hurricane".

Instead of making it automatic, throw in an oGCD instant-cast trigger button that changes based on the spells you cast-dualcast and have the player press it manually. Sounds kinds fun. Also make both AoE and single target versions, i.e. verfire+verthunder = verstorm, verthunder+impact = verstorm II AoE.

[MPNZ]

Instead of making it automatic, throw in an oGCD instant-cast trigger button that changes based on the spells you cast-dualcast and have the player press it manually. Sounds kinds fun. Also make both AoE and single target versions, i.e. verfire+verthunder = verstorm, verthunder+impact = verstorm II AoE.

That would work as well, and everything else is like the idea. RDM's rotations totally need something

[Maero]

Red Mage damage is just above DNC..
We do not need more healing spells, we need dmg and perhaps other tweaks especially it's "Utility"
Embolden should still be made more powerful in my opinion, are they worried it would be deemed too "OP" if it would affect both physical+ magic dps?

I do like some suggestions some of you have mention

[Duelle]

I guess to start, stances wouldn't really work without a full redesign of the job. Granted, this could work assuming we wanted to just finish ripping off Bloodborne by making the RDM stances correspond to weapon modes like the trick weapons from that game (instead of holding the sword like a decoration and then remembering its supposed to be used like a staff). Sword swung with the main hand while the crystal in the offhand is used to cast weak spells, then bringing both together to cast bigger spells. Of course, this means melee would have to play a bigger role in the design, but thems them breaks.

In the short term, the job could use potency boosts to stuff already in place. I'd probably replace Enhanced Displacement (Displacement and Engagement should have the same potency, otherwise you're punishing the player in situations where they can't jump away) with a trait that boosts Verfire/stone/aero/thunder. Of course, the potential issue with this is that RDM DPS output becomes very dependent on procs (Jolt II vs boosted Verfire/Verstone). I guess we could lower Acceleration's cooldown to 30s to help with this.

The more roundabout way of buffing DPS output would be to increase mana gained per spell cast to increase the frequency of the enhanced melee combo (since that is supposed to be the burst phase). Doing this, however, would require increasing the threshold for discrepancy between black and white mana (the current threshold is a difference of 30 between black/white mana; you'd need to increase it to 40 or 45).

Frankly speaking, I don't agree with the notion that utility somehow inflates RDM's value beyond its intended role. Whatever applicable taxes should not lead to the gap in DPS that we're currently seeing. So I'm gonna have to say that I don't think Vercure and Verraise should be locked away as the OP is suggesting.