Is Blm gonna be the only accepted range option now? :(

[Straynge]

My Bard is still very viable. People are freaking out too much. Our dps isn't that bad...it's still pretty much on par with where it's always been. In fact I think I crit a bit more than I used to. Also a Red Mage still does pretty good damage. It might not seem like it if you compare it to the damage a Monk does in a Raid but I can't solo lv. 70 dungeons on a freaking Monk the way I can a Red Mage. It's not all about Raid DPS. A lot of jobs bring different things to the table. If all you care about is pure dps then might as well run everyhting with nothing but Monks. People are also gearing up now so it's not near as big of a deal.

[CKNovel]

My Bard is still very viable. People are freaking out too much. Our dps isn't that bad...it's still pretty much on par with where it's always been.

In fact, you are right!
However it's on par with Stormblood, back then we had:

Hypercharge, Foe's Requiem, Palisade, Dismantle, Refresh

Ranged DPS had much more support to justify the taxes on the low DPS which is not the case in SHB where ranged have Samba/Tactician but the Casters Addle is the same, if not better. As you said so well, it's not all about Raid DPS, it's also about mitigation and refreshing other's resources.

EDIT: I indeed forgot the Bard 2% permanent crit passive which made the job strong as hell
But let's never forget Dismantle, it was incredibly strong, 10% damage reduced from the target every 60s, it's almost available for every Earthen Fury in E4S P2&P3!

[Akiudo]

In fact, you are right!
However it's on par with Stormblood, back then we had:

Hypercharge, Foe's Requiem, Palisade, Dismantle, Refresh

Ranged DPS had much more support to justify the taxes on the low DPS which is not the case in SHB where ranged have Samba/Tactician but the Casters Addle is the same, if not better. As you said so well, it's not all about Raid DPS, it's also about mitigation and refreshing other's resources

you forgot the 2% crit bard gave passively to the group, which is exactly why it's not on par, personal is not raid dps, and mch lost hypercharge, bard lost the 2% crit aswell aswell foe's and personal dps basically didn't move an inch. and yes, refresh and palisade obviously ,may have justified somewhat weaker dps but yes, both are gone

[Dogempire]

Honestly I just find it infuriating that at the moment an amazing ranged player is only worth a mediocre melee player, and they have negligible utility to boot.

They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.

[RoyalBeef]

They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.

This. I loved the AOE baiting/kiting in E1S.. I kite and shoot so our melees can go to town DPS wise. That's why I don't get the high DPS tax... have you tried kiting stuff during wildfire spam whilepaying attention to not run out of range or touch a wall of death? Yeah hitting positionals as melee can be hard, but ranged life isn't easy street all the time either. Imo when I kite stuff to grant melees 100% uptime and I'm able to keep 100% uptime while kiting, our DPS should be equal. Fight me :P

[CKNovel]

They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.

While the problem was on the mechanics, you don't need to force melee to have more downtime.
I remember on O11S you had... 3 mechanics a ranged could bait if I remember well. If all mechanics could be baited, ranged would shine and their extra responsabilities would be a reason for extra dps.

In UWU it was also the case, ranged had to/could bait multiple critical mechanics allowing the remaining of the group to freely DPS. That's why it's really weird, if there's a mechanic you can bait, you should bait it. But it always feel like "It's my time to shine moment, that's why I've been ranged" except that it happens... Twice in the current raid tier?

[Noitems]

Honestly I just find it infuriating that at the moment an amazing ranged player is only worth a mediocre melee player, and they have negligible utility to boot.

They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.

I'd much rather have the Ranged just be boosted as a whole. Dragging down melee to just meet up with the same current standards Ranged has isn't going to solve anything and if anything seems like an insult imo.

It's more fun to have everyone playing at their best, so if the fights do have melee downtime the variety of buffed up range can cover the gap two BLM's would easily float over in our current state.

[Dogempire]

I'd much rather have the Ranged just be boosted as a whole. Dragging down melee to just meet up with the same current standards Ranged has isn't going to solve anything and if anything seems like an insult imo.

It's more fun to have everyone playing at their best, so if the fights do have melee downtime the variety of buffed up range can cover the gap two BLM's would easily float over in our current state.

I mean that's a fair point, it's just that at the moment I can't really think of any raid in the current tier that has significant melee downtime minus maybe Titan, and even then it depends on how you handle mechanics and consequently enable melee to have more uptime. If raids are going to stay at around the current level of difficulty of melee uptime, I don't see any point in a ranged tax unless it's only 100 or 200 dps.

Optimizing uptime and maintaining a 35+ CPM rotation while on the move are both pretty hard, some people are just better at one than the other.

[ForteNightshade]

My Bard is still very viable. People are freaking out too much. Our dps isn't that bad...it's still pretty much on par with where it's always been. In fact I think I crit a bit more than I used to. Also a Red Mage still does pretty good damage. It might not seem like it if you compare it to the damage a Monk does in a Raid but I can't solo lv. 70 dungeons on a freaking Monk the way I can a Red Mage. It's not all about Raid DPS. A lot of jobs bring different things to the table. If all you care about is pure dps then might as well run everyhting with nothing but Monks. People are also gearing up now so it's not near as big of a deal.

Fancy you should say this. Lets compare the two jobs you mentioned; Monk and Bard, and what they offer their respective parties.

Monk
Feint: Reduces physical damage dealt by 10% for 10 seconds on a 90 second CD
Brotherhood: Increases physical damage dealt by 5%
Mantra: Increases all healing actions on the party by 20% for 15 seconds on a 90 second CD

Bard
Battle Voice: Increases Direct Hit by 20% of all party members for 20 seconds on a 180 second CD
Troubadour: Reduces damage taken by 10% for 15 seconds on a 180 second CD
Nature's Minne: Increases all healing actions on a single target by 20% for 15 seconds on a 90 second CD

Monk actually has a vastly superior version of Bard's own utility now in Mantra while doing absurdly higher damage in both raid and personal DPS. So what, exactly, is Bard actually offer that warrants a 1,600 rDPS disparity between it and Monk on Titan? As for your DPS not being bad. Sorry to say but two Black Mages offer statistically higher raid contribution than any of the Physical Range. Yes, this accounts for even the 1% being loss and the LB generation penalty. Now this may not matter to you, especially if your only objective is to clear. But please don't dismiss very legitimate and well researched concerns because it effects people who do care. You only stand to benefit from potential buffs anyway. Why complain about this?

[BarretOblivion]

My Bard is still very viable. People are freaking out too much. Our dps isn't that bad...it's still pretty much on par with where it's always been. In fact I think I crit a bit more than I used to. Also a Red Mage still does pretty good damage. It might not seem like it if you compare it to the damage a Monk does in a Raid but I can't solo lv. 70 dungeons on a freaking Monk the way I can a Red Mage. It's not all about Raid DPS. A lot of jobs bring different things to the table. If all you care about is pure dps then might as well run everyhting with nothing but Monks. People are also gearing up now so it's not near as big of a deal.

It is about raid dps though. No one cares about dungeons. Again, the point of the entire topic is that once RDM/SMN get the buffs they need then we got a slippery slope issue with physical ranged. All physical ranged are significantly behind BLM, without changes physical ranges will be pushed out in favor of casters or 3 melee. The bonus 1% means nothing if the job you pull in is behind almost 2k dps. This is also a result of the loss of refresh from ranged DPS. In SB it was basically mandatory you had at least one ranged for refresh to keep healers MP healthy if they were DPSing properly. Sure, we ran into an issue where physical ranged had too much utility resulting in double stacking physical ranged because raid buffs were more powerful than a class that could utilize buff to their best. Not only that but all physical ranged DPS got nerfed further than just losing refresh/pallisade. BRD lost thier 2% passive crit buff and foe's requim. MCH lost hyperdrive and dismantle. In the end neither BRD nor MCH got a dps buff to compensate and DNC was released baised off of ranged physicals. Either reintroduce BRD/MCH old raid utility and buff DNC personal damage or buff all physical ranged DPS to be close to casters. (MCH should deal as much as SMN or even slightly more)