Is Blm gonna be the only accepted range option now? :(

[Wayfinder3]

but thats what it ends up if people use the role bonus to justify bringing a class, which people have done more than once in the last couple days, because if the role bonus is the only reason to bring a physical ranged or a caster (even if it is enough of a reason) than double physical ranged/casters (or even 3 ranged in total) are completly unviable, and while i don't think that in itself is a problem it becomes a problem if 2 melees are basically locked and 3 are at least viable

the only reason why this isn't saying anything is because, Melee don't offer much more than ranged do as far as utility. the Role is just better than every other role with the exception of BLM. if ranged were swapped with melee, it would be BLM, 2 of DNC/BRD/MCH, and the last would be the strongest melee or a 3rd ranged. Melee are assured 2 slots because they're just better than the other alternatives right now by at least 8% to 10% rdps

[Akiudo]

the only reason why this isn't saying anything is because, Melee don't offer much more than ranged do as far as utility. the Role is just better than every other role with the exception of BLM. if ranged were swapped with melee, it would be BLM, 2 of DNC/BRD/MCH, and the last would be the strongest melee or a 3rd ranged. Melee are assured 2 slots because they're just better than the other alternatives right now by at least 8% to 10% rdps

thats basically my point, i was simply pointing out that this is a reason why using the role bonus is a bad justification, like i don't say the role bonus is a bad thing, its their to encourage some balance and obviously not all classes will be perfectly balanced ever, its just that at least some people argue that the role bonus is a good fix to imbalance in a "if they are only 6% worse than role bonus will fix it" way, which is not really true, thats the point where the role bonus is enough to "enforce" 1 phys ranged/1caster, but not nearly the point where this blatant imbalance disappers.

If all casters/ranged where 5% below the lowest melee the role bonus would work in the "take one of these" sense, it would however not make things like double physical ranged any more viable which while i don't think is necessarely "bad" i really don't see a reason why 2/1/1 melee/phys/ranged should be encouraged more than 1/2/1 or maybe even 2/2 for example (that would require combining the caster/ranged phys bonus but i personally wouldn't mind that, its basically the same slot at this point anyways)

[IntrovertAnt]

If you have a duplicate (dupe) BLM don’t you additionally lose out on LB generation as well!

[Akiudo]

If you have a duplicate (dupe) BLM don’t you additionally lose out on LB generation as well!

you do, but "less" lb generation more often than not boils down to "same total number of limit breaks anyways"

[Madoka]

If you have a duplicate (dupe) BLM don’t you additionally lose out on LB generation as well!

One LB3 instead of one LB3 and one LB1. Whew

[Metalwrath]

Are buffs to jobs not what we're advocating for?

And yes, we wiped that time because of too many deaths, HOWEVER if we had more of the top half of the dps roster rather than the bottom half (We have a dancer, a red mage, a machinist, and a monk) we wouldn't have wiped, the dps would be high enough to beat the enrage all factors remaining the same simply because certain jobs are superior to others.

The issue isn't that we can't clear content because the jobs are bad, the issue is that we can make a lot more mistakes and clear with good jobs vs making much less mistakes and barely clearing with the bad jobs. The game should be balanced around having around the same amount of difficulty to clear content regardless of your party comp, which it isn't.

My point about bringing a black mage is that not having one puts a lot more stress on having everyone perform well, where having one you can afford more deaths and still make a clear.

I'm not thinking about the meta, I'm thinking about what I can contribute as a dps player for my group towards getting our clear, screw putting blame on others, and one of the choices should NOT be to switch to one of the overtuned classes instead of doing something like learning a new opener or making better use of raid buffs, both of which will only give me maybe a few hundred dps at most, compared to gaining 1000+ switching to a melee job or black mage.

All you've managed to point out is that by having the best dps raid setup it would have carried your team through mechanics.As this is still the issue which caused your party to fail.If you'd doen the mechanics properly you wouldnt have hit the enrage.This is why i hate raid metas.I understand it for world first clears etc but at the end of the day these raids are supposed to be about player skill and not doing more dps so you dont have to learn mechanics properly.This mentality has gone on for way too long.
Also by this stage most people will have their deepshadow weapon and atleast a deepshadow chest which is a significant boost for the raids.At this stage there is no excuse for any raid party to be claiming they need only certain setups or cant clear without that set up.This just means they are bad.

[Dogempire]

If you have a duplicate (dupe) BLM don’t you additionally lose out on LB generation as well!

You get about 5 LB bars from the average savage raid, give or take a bar.

3 bars is 1% hp, so at best you're looking at a 1% difference

[Dogempire]

All you've managed to point out is that by having the best dps raid setup it would have carried your team through mechanics.As this is still the issue which caused your party to fail.If you'd doen the mechanics properly you wouldnt have hit the enrage.This is why i hate raid metas.I understand it for world first clears etc but at the end of the day these raids are supposed to be about player skill and not doing more dps so you dont have to learn mechanics properly.This mentality has gone on for way too long.
Also by this stage most people will have their deepshadow weapon and atleast a deepshadow chest which is a significant boost for the raids.At this stage there is no excuse for any raid party to be claiming they need only certain setups or cant clear without that set up.This just means they are bad.

This was weeks ago before we got our deepshadow weapons. We don't have dps problems now unless there's an unacceptable amount of dying involved.

And that was exactly my point with having the best dps raid setup, we're running 2 ranged dps and 1 red mage; red mage, dancer, and machinist are currently on the bottom half of the dps roster and having any of those given jobs be a top half dps job would have given us the 1% edge to clear the enrage in that particular instance.

[ForteNightshade]

All you've managed to point out is that by having the best dps raid setup it would have carried your team through mechanics.As this is still the issue which caused your party to fail.If you'd doen the mechanics properly you wouldnt have hit the enrage.This is why i hate raid metas.I understand it for world first clears etc but at the end of the day these raids are supposed to be about player skill and not doing more dps so you dont have to learn mechanics properly.This mentality has gone on for way too long.
Also by this stage most people will have their deepshadow weapon and atleast a deepshadow chest which is a significant boost for the raids.At this stage there is no excuse for any raid party to be claiming they need only certain setups or cant clear without that set up.This just means they are bad.

You're missing the point though. Mistakes will happen no matter how good the players are. It shouldn't even be a conversation how a couple deaths makes the enrage check much closer not because of said deaths but due to the jobs you played regardless of it being week 1 or week 5. That just creates an unfair advantage. Not to mention, it simply feels awful playing those weaker jobs knowing if you just learned Black Mage, you'd be a much bigger help to your team. Even if your group is happy with you playing whatever, that thought shouldn't be there. But for a lot of people, it is since you can't erase knowing how much better Black Mage is at the moment.

No matter how you slice it. This imbalance shouldn't be a thing.

[Dogempire]

All you've managed to point out is that by having the best dps raid setup it would have carried your team through mechanics.As this is still the issue which caused your party to fail.If you'd doen the mechanics properly you wouldnt have hit the enrage.This is why i hate raid metas.I understand it for world first clears etc but at the end of the day these raids are supposed to be about player skill and not doing more dps so you dont have to learn mechanics properly.This mentality has gone on for way too long.
Also by this stage most people will have their deepshadow weapon and atleast a deepshadow chest which is a significant boost for the raids.At this stage there is no excuse for any raid party to be claiming they need only certain setups or cant clear without that set up.This just means they are bad.

Maybe I worded something weirdly in my original post weirdly but I feel like I'm missing something you're trying to say.

Regardless, my point is that a 40th percentile dragoon will contribute much more to killing the boss and getting the clear than a 40th percentile dancer or red mage with how imbalanced dps classes currently are, sure, any class is viable for clearing raids, but one requires more perfection in doing mechanics perfectly while keeping uptime and a good rotation while the other doesn't. If I decided I wanted to main something like dragoon or black mage for this savage tier we would have been able to clear before the enrage cast finished.

People want buffs for the worse classes so that we don't have to worry about how much our choice of class will put strain on others to perform more perfectly.

It's normal to see enrage timers while progging, and once you hit enrage there really isn't any more mechanics to be learned and done properly, just better execution of everything, however, I guarantee you the comp with double ranged won't be able to afford as many deaths or mistakes in general as one with double melee and a black mage for first clears.