Thread: 5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Bard isn't bringing passive Crit buffs, Refresh and etc. All they're offering is the aforementioned mitigation which is arguably comparable to melee Feint, and Minne. The latter of which is laughably inferior to Mantra.

thats the big one, the "support" jobs all lost a ton of effective support while gaining 0 personal damage in return, it may very well be that say a bard that does 10% less personal dps than a blackmage but offers 2% passive crit, foe's requiem, battle voice and refresh is "overpowered", but there is an enourmous gap between "10% less dps and 3 damage buffs+a really usefull support skill" and 13-15% less [personal] dps and 1 damage buff+nothing else wortwhile.

also i would argue refresh is actually the biggest offender for casual groups here, the rest comes in play at a speedkill meta level, i at least can say that my last three (casual) statics all made sure to have a bard or mch (they didn't even care which of them, just their were more bards) but not for the dps but for refresh.

Also if dps "support" at a perfect level barely breaks even with personal dps of "selfish" classes that would mean that instead of (just for example) going from bard going from 5% worse->5% better than blackmage depending on group composition we simply go from bard 10% worse->bard barely able to break even depending on group composition, and while i get that it sucks to be excluded from anything, even if its "just" the speedkill meta i'm not sure i would call the "'support' is allways worse" version better balanced than the "'in an ideal group the 'support' class may overtake the 'pure' class, while in a non-meta combination it may actually be the other way around and in reality they will probably meet somewhere in the middle in any non meta speedkill party"

at least not as long as the only "support" they offer that others don't is dps support, if people really want to argue how useful nature's minne for example is we might aswell start calling manaward support as if it keeps you alive it saves the healers mana because s/he doesn't have to rezz you