Thread: 5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

Originally Posted by IruruCece

Hard disagree. If complexity is so subjective that it's barely a factor worth considering whatsoever for balancing, then what is the point of mudras or the various OGCDs for SMN? Why even have positionals in general? Because at this point we've reduced "complexity" to busywork for the sake of having it, and two jobs are dealing with more inputs (as part of their identity) for less output than the higher end jobs.

While it sucks to say it, RDM should not be used as an excuse to not address the concerns SMN players have been raising, or any other DPS for that matter. It should still get looked at, it should absolutely get some serious changes to make it more competitive. Should it be looked at sooner? Maybe. Unfortunately, jobs have been left hanging for information and fixes before, but that doesn't mean fixes and changes aren't coming.

Complexity is to make the job interesting or engaging, but the issue we've had since Heavensward is that jobs eventually got too complex to the point that even the newer players had a little struggle here and there on the casual end with certain jobs(namely the jobs that had high APM). Positionals are there to add flavor to the job; and sure, there are arguments out there saying that positionals are detrimental in some fights, but True North's CD is not that long for Melee now compared to back then since it got knocked down to a flat 45s CD with 2 uses to combat this argument with skill level.

As for jobs with more inputs, MCH would like a word with you. MCH still is near SAM in regards to damage, but as Hyomin said the rDPS on top of both MNK and DRG's superior pDPS is allowing them to top without question and create this inane gap we have currently between the top end and bottom end; namely in the 50th percentile. On top of that, they weren't using RDM as an excuse; they were stating how the simplicity of RDM would not allow it to see the light of day in Savage if complexity was a metric they used.

Originally Posted by IruruCece

Most players, myself definitely included, will never see the absolute peak of their job's performance. The people who do are a fraction of the overall player population. While the numbers and hard work are helpful at revealing what issues do currently exist. when those players start saying crap like "even if they buff my Jobs, I won't be happy if another Job is strong," then all they are generating beyond the data is raw sewage.

They can address the current DPS imbalance without nerfs to "those who need it" because there is no one who actually "needs" nerfs. There are, however, plenty of jobs in the game right now that need buffs and mechanical changes. Something isn't synergizing. Something isn't working. Address those things.

Hell, despite the numbers, even Monk has mechanical issues with how it works. If Anatman in the opener was real intention of the developers from the beginning, then it was an extremely bad call. It's not fun to use, and it relies on server ticks we can't really see without a mod. Tornado Kick is back to being situational. Six Sided Star doesn't belong anywhere in any rotation, serving as yet another button to fix our Greased Lightning problems (that we also have Riddle of Earth AND the current Form Shift for).

I am not even slightly opposed to seeing the pure DPS jobs firmly at the top of the heap. But I don't want to face nerfs on top of mechanical issues going unfixed, and the majority of players who are calling for nerfs here aren't even pretending to make that consideration when they throw around "utility" as an excuse.

Well, I would want to argue after they lifted the slow-down on Riddle of Fire it's gotten pretty out of hand for MNK in general since it's basically like throwing MNK Raging Strikes for free. People wanted to go faster, so SE listened and lifted it; but I don't think they checked the repercussions of doing so given DRG was already at the top of the heap pre-5.05. If anything, true balance lies at what jobs bring to a raid; whether it be buffs, a damage increase, whatever it takes to get their job done and help the group. Some of these jobs are outliers in this regard since they have one or both things listed:

1) The most damage potential in a given fight.
2) Powerful buffs to "necessitate" their presence in a static group

In this regard, I'm talking about Dragoon mainly. MNK can be composition dependent because of Brotherhood, but running 3 Melee is already an arduous task; hence why people look to BLM's dominance over both the Ranged and Caster Slots due to their substantial DPS output to fill the gaps.

Dragoon in general has been a crutch for statics to lean on ever since inception due to both the damage they do and the rDPS they provide through both Dragon Sight and Battle Litany. Even if they do provide small gains in rDPS, their pDPS was buffed this expansion to make up for the loss of Piercing Resistance Down. The only thing I believe is that they overtuned it pre-5.05 and probably will adjust their numbers in 5.1, but it seems their focus is more on NIN/SAM/SMN due to how both NIN/SMN play and SAM's Shoha being nigh useless on 100% uptime fights for a capstone ability.