Question about FFLogs

[HakaseNyan]

I'd call it a fair reason to remove someone, so long as they aren't a jerk about it. This game's endgame content relies all around Hard enrages; mathematical equations that are extremely binary if you fail or not. When someone's out to complete Titan for example, I wouldn't fault that person for being hesitant for not wanting to party with someone that has their logs hidden. Bringing someone in who is obfuscated in their performance is a risk, you could get lucky or not. But between the choice of waiting for someone who has the performance AND shows it off vs someone who may or may not have the performance, potentially wasting lots of time if their performance isn't up to snuff, its easy to see why people would choose the former.

I see it as no different than not wanting to play with someone who claims "they've seen enrage, just need a good group." or "This is an alt." In all scenarios you're taking a gamble, and not wanting to take it due to lack of information available to you is not harassment. (Unless they straight up insult you/claim your performance must suck because you're hiding your numbers, etc, then that's harassment.) That being said, if anyone ever mentions parses in-game, they're asking for a report when they could simply say "sorry X, we got a friend coming" as a fib reason to remove a person.

Look, I agree with the reasoning. The party lead has the final say no matter what. However, it's a unique situation where the party lead has 3rd party knowledge to use against the person wishing to join. If the leader brings up this knowledge, he or she gets in trouble for mentioning it and kicking the person. If the leader doesn't bring up this knowledge, he or she gets away with kicking the person. In one situation the person wishing to join can report the leader; the other he or she can't. If the person joining can't prove the reasoning behind their exclusion - are they even being harassed?

Anyway, ACT and FFLogs seem like such handy tools, and I feel I must reiterate that I do not use them or run the content that they are used for. I have a friend that was actually harassed over parsing shenanigans, and I have read plenty of statements from others about it too. Though, I do like to wonder what things would be like without these tools; Having to waste time failing duties with people you don't know a thing about sure sounds awful.

[RoyalBeef]

Are "harassment" and "inconvenience" interchangeable words now? "Omg I wasn't allowed to join a party ingame! Harsassment!" The heck?
Make your own party/static where you can make your own rules instead of trying to find ways of forcing yourself into someone else's party who doesn't want you there, or even worse, ruining the game for them out ofs pite by reporting because you are unable to cope with being told "no".

[Driavna]

Are "harassment" and "inconvenience" interchangeable words now? "Omg I wasn't allowed to join a party ingame! Harsassment!" The heck?
Make your own party/static where you can make your own rules instead of trying to find ways of forcing yourself into someone else's party who doesn't want you there, or even worse, ruining the game for them out ofs pite by reporting because you are unable to cope with being told "no".

For some, words are like magic spells. They will try different ones until the desired results are met. That's why people will kick others without saying a word.

I remember a player not long ago posting that kick without telling the reason should also be bannable too and how tiresome being kicked so often was. I can bet you that this person never though the fault was on him/her.

My point is: people will look for any excuse to enforce "you will carry my no matter what" mentality. After all, people checking logs beforehand for anything that it's not the current hardest content are super rare.

[RoyalBeef]

That entitlement that others should not be allowed topick who they want to group with is baffling xD That's like wanting to hang out and have fun with your friends, then your little sister whine's to your mom until she forces you to take her along, ruining everyone's day.

[Driavna]

Baldesion Arsenal was the perfect example of how the entitled casuals in this game will attack anything that stands in their way of a carry. By that time a recurrent complaint, spiced with fake toxic stories mind you, about discord started to pop up.

To me, the peak entitlement was certain players asking for "toxic" healers to be banned because they refuse to rez them.

Edit: in Baldesion Arsenal you can't use the regular rez. In order to rez someone, the healer has to sacrifice itself. Paired with another spell there was a chance for the healer to come back to life.

[RoyalBeef]

To me, the peak entitlement was certain players asking for "toxic" healers to be banned because they refuse to rez them.

Wow, I dont even know what to say to that lol

[Zekrin]

Don't know why people arguing "should/ shouldn't pick your party member"...
Obiviously you can, I just not liking the way that FFlogs get/show those "infomation for picking".
(SE says it's legal then it is, but it's something I wouldn't do.)

I believe if FFlogs doing better, paying a little more respect to those who don't like "number competitions", such like not showing the name or hiding logs by default, there won't be so much conflict opinion in this topic.(Or maybe I won't even start this topic...)
And those who need information can still get what they want: just ask the one joining party to show their own logs, if they say no then you say no, simple and easy.

[Driavna]

And those who need information can still get what they want: just ask the one joining party to show their own logs, if they say no then you say no, simple and easy.

If you ask a random player in-game for logs and that player reports you... well... congratulations! You are banned.

FFlogs already has the option to hide your own numbers if you desire. Why does it need to be the other way around?

With current rules, no one can mock a player for their performance without eating a ban.

[Zekrin]

no one can mock a player for their performance without eating a ban.

So...If I didn't get it wrong, BAN means SE doesn't encourage FFlogs, then what you saying means "the site and how player using it is not allowed by SE, but I insist it should exist in a stealthy way"?
(Sounds like "Don't fight in public or you got caught. Fight when no one see you and your victim." )

I thought SE allowed these action and using of logs according to the previous replies... Now I totally don't understand why judge other players with "things can't asking others to show" is ok.
Seem like SE DON'T want a player have other players logs(or judge them by logs), otherwise why they ban someone asked and got reported?
You make me confuse again, thanks bro


Oh, Almost forgot :"FFlogs already has the option" indeed, but not by default, which means who don't know the site can't do anything about it.
Their opinion had been ignored but still affected by the site :they could been kicked or rufused cause they didn't upload logs with better performance, whether they do have or don't. And like you said asking logs probably get banned, they won't be told why they got kicked.

[Vnolan]

So...If I didn't get it wrong, BAN means SE doesn't encourage FFlogs, then what you saying means "the site and how player using it is not allowed by SE, but I insist it should exist in a stealthy way"?
(Sounds like "Don't fight in public or you got caught. Fight when no one see you and your victim." )

Correct. ToS enforcement is quite literally a joke (bot, cheat, sell for money, but don't you dare use a bad word or mention those evil numbers) in this game. To put it simply, if something is against the ToS (parsing is), is reported and SE has proof that meets their standards (chat logs), they will issue account action.

If SE could disable parsers without losing subscribers (impossible) they would do it.