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  1. #1
    Player
    Alaray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    624
    Character
    Vevri Arctyria
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HakaseNyan View Post
    Except in the situation where you're excluded from a group because your performance is up there and/or you have your logs hidden. This is technically harassment, is it not? However, you cannot prove this is the reason they are excluding you. Ergo, you cannot report them for harassing you.
    No that's not harassment, that's a player not meeting the bar set for that party. That's like saying: someone who is excluded from a party because they only want to play ARC at level 80 with level 1 gear equipped is being harassed.

    Make/find a group better suited for the play level you're at.

    Actual, real harassment can end up being serious. Turning it into a bad joke does no one any favors.
    (19)

  2. #2
    Player
    HakaseNyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    239
    Character
    Suzu Hakase
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaray View Post
    No that's not harassment, that's a player not meeting the bar set for that party. That's like saying: someone who is excluded from a party because they only want to play ARC at level 80 with level 1 gear equipped is being harassed.

    Make/find a group better suited for the play level you're at.

    Actual, real harassment can end up being serious. Turning it into a bad joke does no one any favors.
    Nevermind the example of bad parse history; I don't want to get into a series of hypotheticals. However, what about using that string in your profile to hide logs? If the party leader tells you straight out, "you can't play with us because you hide your parses" and proceeds to kick you - is that not harassment? What do you call that?

    Here's a hint: If the party leader actually did say anything relating to FFLogs or parsing being the reason you can't play with them, then you could report him or her and they would get a meeting with a GM.

    Also, your example is a terrible misrepresentation. A Lv80 ARC with Lv1 gear equipped wouldn't be able to meet actual party-finder criteria to join the party; role slots can be set to require Jobs only and no Classes with the addition of a minimum iLevel. I don't see a "must have FFLogs visible" option though.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Alaray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    624
    Character
    Vevri Arctyria
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HakaseNyan View Post
    Nevermind the example of bad parse history; I don't want to get into a series of hypotheticals. However, what about using that string in your profile to hide logs? If the party leader tells you straight out, "you can't play with us because you hide your parses" and proceeds to kick you - is that not harassment? What do you call that?

    Here's a hint: If the party leader actually did say anything relating to FFLogs or parsing being the reason you can't play with them, then you could report him or her and they would get a meeting with a GM.

    Also, your example is a terrible misrepresentation. A Lv80 ARC with Lv1 gear equipped wouldn't be able to meet actual party-finder criteria to join the party; role slots can be set to require Jobs only and no Classes with the addition of a minimum iLevel. I don't see a "must have FFLogs visible" option though.
    You're not playing at their expected level, or they can't gauge whether you're someone who can play at their desired level. Again, that's not harassment. That's: We don't want to potentially carry you. It's not a group that lines up with you. Find a different group.

    There's plenty of other groups to join, or you can make your own. You're not being actively excluded from participating in the content as a whole, and have other options, and they aren't sending you tells telling you in detail why they think you suck. Or mocking you in tells and so on.

    If someone entered my party and I didn't like them for some reason, I'm free to kick them. Whether they came in and perform so poorly on a fight they're barely a combatant, or started to throw around transphobic stuff, or whatever. There's not spot in the PF options to say "If you are replaceable with a NPC don't join" or "Don't fling around dumb comments" alongside the general description of what the group intends to do -- at least in cases of Savage since that's where people slap in the strat they're using. But I still hold the ability to kick those players from my party, be it for their own mouths, or for, as your posted examples falls under: Gameplay differences.

    Sure, they can't tell you precisely why as a different rule covers mentioning ACT. But if you can infer why, why on earth do you want to play with them? And instead of hyperfixating on this 1 group who doesn't want you, why not find a different group from the multitudes that likely exist?

    I am fairly convinced you don't know what harassment is. (ie: continual, aggressive, pressure aimed specifically at you -- like, if they started to send you a ton of /tells about why they hate you or the like, or if the sent /tells mocking you repeatedly, etc... -- but even a single case of that is reportable).
    (9)
    Last edited by Alaray; 09-01-2019 at 08:10 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Nixxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,470
    Character
    Nixx Delumi
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by HakaseNyan View Post
    Except in the situation where you're excluded from a group because your performance is up there and/or you have your logs hidden. This is technically harassment, is it not? However, you cannot prove this is the reason they are excluding you. Ergo, you cannot report them for harassing you.
    Pretty nuts that you'd think that's harassment. Why do you feel entitled to join other people's groups if you cannot meet their standards?
    (8)

  5. #5
    Player
    Moonlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,497
    Character
    Midnight Falcon
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 100
    Not a pro or negative parse question. But does anyone find it weird you post something on here from in game and you have to blur out all the names. But SE turns a blind eye to people loading measurements of other players on another site and don't bat an eye.
    (0)
    Last edited by Moonlite; 08-31-2019 at 09:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    alimdia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,064
    Character
    Ali Lifesaver
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlite View Post
    Not a pro or negative parse question. But does anyone find it weird you post something on here from in game and you have to blur out all the names. But SE turns a blind eye to people loading measurements of other players on another site and don't bat an eye.
    SE has no legal authority to go after those sites just because they publish a fake character name with some numbers. They can try to enforce their ToS within their forums, but any third party site is beyond their reach, Discord included.
    (6)

  7. #7
    Player
    Moonlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,497
    Character
    Midnight Falcon
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by alimdia View Post
    SE has no legal authority to go after those sites just because they publish a fake character name with some numbers. They can try to enforce their ToS within their forums, but any third party site is beyond their reach, Discord included.

    Not to get into it to much, because I don't know what copyrights SE has or doesn't have. In the past a lot of sights were threaten with infringement. They clearly have FF14 stuff posted and they clearly have a donate button. I am sure some of the C+D letters that are sent out don't have much more of a leg to stand on then that. It doesn't stop companies from doing it anyways. They also don't threaten the site they can just threaten the service provider.


    That also wasn't the point though. The point was it is very clear here, no naming. But when they talk about turning a blind eye to this system in place it clearly has a naming system. That seems a little off is all.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    Vnolan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    453
    Character
    Vyncent Nolan
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlite View Post
    Not a pro or negative parse question. But does anyone find it weird you post something on here from in game and you have to blur out all the names. But SE turns a blind eye to people loading measurements of other players on another site and don't bat an eye.
    People can be stupid. If someone posts another player's name in a negative light, you'd have people blacklist or attempt to grief the named players, regardless of whether any of the accusations were true. Another reason is everyone would see how easy it is to get away with several blatant ToS violations and SE doesn't want that. Also they have control over the forums and not some random website.

    Has the owner of that site ever said why it isn't opt-in?
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,635
    Character
    Ifalna Sha'yoko
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalBeef View Post
    Are "harassment" and "inconvenience" interchangeable words now? "Omg I wasn't allowed to join a party ingame! Harsassment!" The heck?
    "Harassment" is just a buzzword around here that has lost it's original meaning long ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlite View Post
    But does anyone find it weird you post something on here from in game and you have to blur out all the names. But SE turns a blind eye to people loading measurements of other players on another site and don't bat an eye.
    I see no need to obfuscate FF-Logs character data. Contrary to putting people in a certain light by posting chat screen shots etc (often telling an incomplete and one sides story), FF-Logs data is neutral and objective. Peoples interpretation of said data might not be, mind you, but the data itself is. That's why SE requires you to censor names in chat screenshots but doesn't care about FF-Logs.

    Neither should any player btw. Play like the first human, you get the logs to show for it. Instead of raging on about "privacy" and "harassment" said player should just put in a tiny modicum of effort. Then the logs would be okay and there would be no fear of being viewed in a negative way.
    People blow it out of the water anyway. I have some HORRIBLE parses up there. Wipe runs of evenings I was super tired after work, chaotic random groups, me being more busy with chatting in TS than paying attention to the boss, me herp-a-derping it as SMN w/o much of a clue about what I amdoing, you name it. Not once did s/o confront me about it. Oo
    (7)
    Last edited by Granyala; 08-31-2019 at 03:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    MariaArvana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    347
    Character
    Maria Rubrum
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Vnolan View Post
    Has the owner of that site ever said why it isn't opt-in?
    TLR, for it to truly be opt-in would require ACT to also become an opt-in program. (I.E: ACT would have to include a blacklist of player names not to parse in its function)

    He mentioned so long as ACT parses everyone in the party, it'd be trivial for someone to create a second website that'd reveal the non-opted in names of people if he ever made FFlogs opt-in since ACT still stores that data on the parse file. He then explained It's even happened when a bunch of Chinese players created a Chinese version of FFlogs, and that exposed every hidden name on FFlogs anyway since ACT still keeps track of that info.

    He also humorously noted how in the many years of running WoWlogs, he's never had the request to hide away data, it's only ever been a request from FF14 players.

    Quote Originally Posted by HakaseNyan View Post
    Nevermind the example of bad parse history; I don't want to get into a series of hypotheticals. However, what about using that string in your profile to hide logs? If the party leader tells you straight out, "you can't play with us because you hide your parses" and proceeds to kick you - is that not harassment? What do you call that?
    I'd call it a fair reason to remove someone, so long as they aren't a jerk about it. This game's endgame content relies all around Hard enrages; mathematical equations that are extremely binary if you fail or not. When someone's out to complete Titan for example, I wouldn't fault that person for being hesitant for not wanting to party with someone that has their logs hidden. Bringing someone in who is obfuscated in their performance is a risk, you could get lucky or not. But between the choice of waiting for someone who has the performance AND shows it off vs someone who may or may not have the performance, potentially wasting lots of time if their performance isn't up to snuff, its easy to see why people would choose the former.

    I see it as no different than not wanting to play with someone who claims "they've seen enrage, just need a good group." or "This is an alt." In all scenarios you're taking a gamble, and not wanting to take it due to lack of information available to you is not harassment. (Unless they straight up insult you/claim your performance must suck because you're hiding your numbers, etc, then that's harassment.) That being said, if anyone ever mentions parses in-game, they're asking for a report when they could simply say "sorry X, we got a friend coming" as a fib reason to remove a person.
    (9)
    Last edited by MariaArvana; 08-31-2019 at 01:35 PM.

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