Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

[IruruCece]

... what a person mains has no bearing on their opinion if said opinion is, in fact, accurate? She's right. Buffing Samurai would just create more problems because Monk shouldn't be pulling ahead of Black Mage. And I don't main any of them, by the way.

My issue isn't about what they main, and I certainly don't care what you main either. My issue is that it's a pretty awful mindset to even have, and it's coming from a place that has no interest in the actual health of DPS in the game. It flat out sucks as an opinion, unlike actual Samurai DPS, which is still pretty freakin' great right now.

I could just as easily say "There is NO REASON EVER for SAMURAI to out dps MONK, EVER" with the same "conviction" and cheap insults thrown at other players voicing their opinions they have in this thread, and it would be just as ridiculously stupid. Doesn't matter what you main, the moment you toss out "They could buff what I love, but I won't be happy if other things are still strong," you don't have an opinion on game mechanics worth listening to.

[CrashofZenki]

My issue isn't about what they main, and I certainly don't care what you main either. My issue is that it's a pretty awful mindset to even have, and it's coming from a place that has no interest in the actual health of DPS in the game. It flat out sucks as an opinion, unlike actual Samurai DPS, which is still pretty freakin' great right now.

I could just as easily say "There is NO REASON EVER for SAMURAI to out dps MONK, EVER" with the same "conviction" and cheap insults thrown at other players voicing their opinions they have in this thread, and it would be just as ridiculously stupid. Doesn't matter what you main, the moment you toss out "They could buff what I love, but I won't be happy if other things are still strong," you don't have an opinion on game mechanics worth listening to.

In my honest opinion of a healthy DPS balance, SAM needs to be higher than MNK in Personal DPS, but MNK should be higher, but close to SAM in Raid DPS. And that would also apply to other Utility DPS vs non-utility DPS, in their respected field. i/e Melee bracket, Ranged bracket, Caster bracket

[TaiyouSeishin]

snip

You are ignoring Mantra i see. The fact you have that other utility means you shouldnt be top rdps at all. Because support type utilities are nornally taxed with no return. By that notion mnk shouldnt be top rdps at all.

That said you also have a weaker dps utility (probably because its a part of your pdps as well) and your weaker utility shouldnt be given higher value over a stronger utility, cuz then wjat is the point of that utility being stronger?

[IruruCece]

You are ignoring Mantra i see. The fact you have that other utility means you shouldnt be top rdps at all. Because support type utilities are nornally taxed with no return. By that notion mnk shouldnt be top rdps at all.

That said you also have a weaker dps utility (probably because its a part of your pdps as well) and your weaker utility shouldnt be given higher value over a stronger utility, cuz then wjat is the point of that utility being stronger?

Mantra's "utility", much like Smn's ability to Raise, should not be something used to tax either job if they aren't going to address the mechanical complexity of either one. Even after taking away our tornado kick openers with the perfect balance nerf, and essentially forcing us to try and use simpler rotations to get that Bootshine damage, our openers are still some of the busiest in the game, and Smn's have been complaining about how much effort they have to put into their jobs to remain competitive for years at this point. This is even after True North got charges and Riddle of Earth got the absurd buff it did. The former is another button to add to an already very busy rotation, while the latter is something we have to take damage after activating in order to get the most out of it. Both feel like band-aids to try and address the fact that yes, our positional requirements ARE pretty demanding in raid environments, and they make us a lot busier than most other melee dps not named Nin.

It's a similar issue that you ought to be familiar with since you have a Nin at 80, where trick attack has been stupidly used by some members of the community to justify putting your job near the bottom of the DPS heap. Oftentimes, these arguments have been made in complete ignorance of the sheer mechanical complexity for what you need to do just to not only be competitive, but also just to provide a strong contribution to your team outside of Trick. Heck, you're in another thread essentially calling for better Nin pdps, and your job has very good mechanical reasons to justify buffs.

You're not understanding what I mean.

I understand perfectly what you mean, It's just exceedingly bad and dumb. Get outta here with that "RNG doesn't mean anything" and "i see u main JOB im mad about" if you want to be taken seriously.

[TaiyouSeishin]

It's a similar issue that you ought to be familiar with since you have a Nin at 80, where trick attack has been stupidly used by some members of the community to justify putting your job near the bottom of the DPS heap. Oftentimes, these arguments have been made in complete ignorance of the sheer mechanical complexity for what you need to do just to not only be competitive, but also just to provide a strong contribution to your team outside of Trick. Heck, you're in another thread essentially calling for better Nin pdps, and your job has very good mechanical reasons to justify buffs.

I tend to disagree with "taxes" half the time to begin with (especially how high the range tax is), but understand why they are there. It matters not how useful the ability is. It dont matter how complex it is (sadly) the point is for everything you provide you do less of something else.

As for me in other threads all i want, is for my "utility" to not be neutralized. Trick does upwards of 900 to 1k? Then top damage tax shouldnt exceed that amount.

Do i think mnk needs to be the bottom? No, personally i think mnk should be the second strongest pdps of the melee, but not top rdps. There are dps that do less pdps than you at the cost of stronger utility, if that stronger utility doesnt show, what point is there for them? (Kinda why i dislike dps-enhancing-utility)

[Miminming]

I dunno as much as i hate nerf the power creep is getting out of control... monk mantra is as op as hell, especially in e4s phase 3, the existance of monk is bliss there...

Sooooooo... yes nerf it, the dev is becoming wayyyyy to scaredy cay for their own good this time

[MerlinCross]

I'm confused. At the start of the Expansion I saw a lot of complaining from MNKs and now their supposed to be one of the top DPS but I sometimes still see MNK's complain about the job.

WTH has happened with this class while I wasn't looking and why do people still complain about it considering it was the kicked dog for 2 expansions(One of them being their 'own poster' expansion)?

[ownagepuffs]

I'm confused. At the start of the Expansion I saw a lot of complaining from MNKs and now their supposed to be one of the top DPS but I sometimes still see MNK's complain about the job.

WTH has happened with this class while I wasn't looking and why do people still complain about it considering it was the kicked dog for 2 expansions(One of them being their 'own poster' expansion)?

As I understand it.

Before QOL buffs: MNK still didn't have the QOL the community had been asking for. Numbers were still really good, no one noticed because no one played the class.

After QOL Buffs: With Form Shift and Riddle Changes, all the Greased lightning maintenance skills feel really out of place in their kit. All the monk's big payoff moves are not practical so you're using the exact same rotation from forever ago. The numbers are great, but the job hasn't evolved at all from ARR.

[Metalwrath]

As I understand it.

Before QOL buffs: MNK still didn't have the QOL the community had been asking for. Numbers were still really good, no one noticed because no one played the class.

After QOL Buffs: With Form Shift and Riddle Changes, all the Greased lightning maintenance skills feel really out of place in their kit. All the monk's big payoff moves are not practical so you're using the exact same rotation from forever ago. The numbers are great, but the job hasn't evolved at all from ARR.

I'd argue that by the end of Stormblood the job had evolved but then it was regressed in Shadowbringers.At end of stormblood we had tornado kick in our opener because of the riddle of wind changes.We could also use it in our rotations due to the lower cd on pb.
Stormblood monk was quite strong but some of the damage buffs were given to ducktape the overlaying issues of the job which they had promised to deal with in Shadowbringers.WHat we got instead in Shadowbringers was a dumbed down version of monk on steroids.Weaving isnt really a thing we have to do anymore and you're there now just doing a static rotation while waiting to be able to hit an extra button every now and again.
Stormblood monk was erally busy.Shadowbringer monk is nearly an autopilot.

[MerlinCross]

I'd argue that by the end of Stormblood the job had evolved but then it was regressed in Shadowbringers.At end of stormblood we had tornado kick in our opener because of the riddle of wind changes.We could also use it in our rotations due to the lower cd on pb.
Stormblood monk was quite strong but some of the damage buffs were given to ducktape the overlaying issues of the job which they had promised to deal with in Shadowbringers.WHat we got instead in Shadowbringers was a dumbed down version of monk on steroids.Weaving isnt really a thing we have to do anymore and you're there now just doing a static rotation while waiting to be able to hit an extra button every now and again.
Stormblood monk was erally busy.Shadowbringer monk is nearly an autopilot.

So it's power is stupidly high but isn't that fun to actually play by the sounds of it.