Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

[Chimiko]

They should make all the raid buffs self buffs instead. Bring the player, not the job.

It's just so much easier to balance something like that. Else we'll get the same shit all over in 5.4 or 6.1. Raid buffs as a whole needs to go. Then balance the jobs to be in 500~ dps diffrencen between top dps and lowest dps. Player skill should matter more than the actual job. As it is right now people are getting bullied out of their jobs by their statics casue they want them to play a job that deals more damage/heals more or buffs better. If there was barley any diffrence between top dps and lowest dps that would be the ideal world as a raider. That means i could bring a nin/mch/dnc/rdm and not feel like we're missing 4000 raid dps to beat the encounter.

[FouDragoonr]

I have a love/hate relationship with Mnk. (Mnk main btw) Mnk imo is just a mess. We have WAY too much GL management abilities, Anatman is extremely dumb in the fact that now you need a "special thing" in order to line up anatman with the sever tick just to do the opener... (Real mnk mains know what im referring to)
in which no other class has to do that just to do their opener. PS4 players are screwed because of this fact VS PC players. TK is useless again. Perfect Balance is now just a Dragonkick/Bootshine spamer button now. Fists of Fire is useless outside the opener. Six Sided Star in most cases is not worth using unless you need to move away from the boss to go deal with a mechanic or adding a final hit with TK and I feel said skill was poorly implemented. Fists of Earth lul.... you guys get the idea.

Point of me saying all this is yes, Mnk does do amazing damage but the optimal opener is annoying to do because of what is "needed" in order to do it to even achieve that kind of damage. The rotation is now super lackluster and not fun anymore because outside the opener minimal thinking is required and we now have a bunch of skills designed for GL management that we no longer need for GL management and are all now used for entirely different purposes.

[Katie_Kitty]

They should make all the raid buffs self buffs instead. Bring the player, not the job.

It's just so much easier to balance something like that. Else we'll get the same shit all over in 5.4 or 6.1. Raid buffs as a whole needs to go. Then balance the jobs to be in 500~ dps diffrencen between top dps and lowest dps. Player skill should matter more than the actual job. As it is right now people are getting bullied out of their jobs by their statics casue they want them to play a job that deals more damage/heals more or buffs better. If there was barley any diffrence between top dps and lowest dps that would be the ideal world as a raider. That means i could bring a nin/mch/dnc/rdm and not feel like we're missing 4000 raid dps to beat the encounter.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Raid buffs aren't the reason why melee and BLM are 1500-2000 rDPS above ranged and casters. The jobs are simply imbalanced right now to a ridiculous degree, that cannot be justified through raid buffs. Sure, you can technically fix it by removing all raid buffs and balancing the jobs, but that is unnecessary. They can also balance the job by increasing the strength of raid buffs offered by weaker jobs as well.

[Vendalwind]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Raid buffs aren't the reason why melee and BLM are 1500-2000 rDPS above ranged and casters. The jobs are simply imbalanced right now to a ridiculous degree, that cannot be justified through raid buffs. Sure, you can technically fix it by removing all raid buffs and balancing the jobs, but that is unnecessary. They can also balance the job by increasing the strength of raid buffs offered by weaker jobs as well.

This^^ (apparently my message is too short,) but i just really want to echo whats above. I play melee primarily, but regardless of my potential bias the above is extremely true.

I was gonna put "this^^" and end, but now I'm continuing. it would actually be easier to appropriately balance the game if raid buffs were more significant than they currently are, because you could make the disparity between pDPS more sever but still make rDPS more similar in totals around the 90th percentile more loosely. The math works out that way.

[Shurrikhan]

They should make all the raid buffs self buffs instead. Bring the player, not the job.

It's just so much easier to balance something like that. Else we'll get the same shit all over in 5.4 or 6.1. Raid buffs as a whole needs to go. Then balance the jobs to be in 500~ dps diffrencen between top dps and lowest dps. Player skill should matter more than the actual job. As it is right now people are getting bullied out of their jobs by their statics casue they want them to play a job that deals more damage/heals more or buffs better. If there was barley any diffrence between top dps and lowest dps that would be the ideal world as a raider. That means i could bring a nin/mch/dnc/rdm and not feel like we're missing 4000 raid dps to beat the encounter.

Apart from Brotherhood and Embolden being physical only (and fully deserving to be changed to all damage) self buffs vs. raid buffs have absolutely no impact on "Bring the player, not the job". We already saw incredibly tight job balance, apart from MCH being a bit too powerful and DRG obviously too dependent on double-ranged, at the end of SB, far, far tighter than what we have despite having considerably more raid buff value.

The only requirement for "Bring the player, not the job" is that jobs are not uniquely dependent upon other jobs and that they all bring roughly the same rDPS (-/+ other attractors that would otherwise force out jobs of equal rDPS). That requires only (1) a small change to Embolden and Brotherhood, as all else has already been dealt with, and (2) for the devs to actually balance their jobs, instead of having an obvious top half and then their clear inferiors.

[Shiroe]

smn was OP during (early-ish) Stormblood, .. it had utility and was top dps...

it attracted more players, than got nerfed, but still remained very valid..

same should / will happen to Mnk.., it needs a slight nerf

[Shiroe]

maybe just take mantra away from mnk, and give it to sam..

[SpeckledBurd]

maybe just take mantra away from mnk, and give it to sam..

Frankly that just moves an odd outlier among the Melee to someone else. Frankly I'd rather see either Mantra go away because Monk's identity isn't, nor should it be, a support job. It should always be right after the greedy jobs in personal damage. Mantra moving to Samurai doesn't work for the same reason, it's identity isn't a support job. If Mantra isn't removed, I'd suggest the other Melee to get some kind of equivalent strength partywide defensive skills each with their own flavor, such as Shadeshift now hitting everyone in the party, Dragoon getting a 10% defense boost for everyone within 15 yalms, and Samurai getting a targeted 10% damage down on the boss.

That way, defensive utility between the DPS roles is somewhat consistent. Caster DPS can Raise Except Black Mage, Ranged Physical bring a heavy shield and some unique defensive power and free movement, and Melee bring weaker tools.

[Kurando]

It feels strange that MNK (and DRG) bring utility but also have top DPS, yet SAM isn't as high as them. I would expect the latter to be highest because it has no utility, but should it be buffed or MNK be nerfed (possibly DRG too), I'm on the fence about it. NIN is doing quite well now too after the potency increases so it begs the question of what exactly needs to be balanced and how would it be done. I like the MNK kit at the moment though (not sure about Tornado Kick...) so don't think it needs a major change, just an adjustment or two.

[Mahrze]

That way, defensive utility between the DPS roles is somewhat consistent. Caster DPS can Raise Except Black Mage, Ranged Physical bring a heavy shield and some unique defensive power and free movement, and Melee bring weaker tools.

That I think would bring us back to the usual: "Who hits harder and has the better buffs" since it's always a game of numbers for a portion of the community and that echoes really fast.


Support abilities overall seem to tax to a jobs performance and depending on the circumstances, give them a bigger advantage than being "purely selfish".