Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

[Lina_Slayer]

"huge damage buffs". I would be very surprised to see why sam is, in your opinion, in a good spot now Although I'm still doubting about the fact that even Ninja is above Sam when it comes to rdps now.

Monk are having a great life atm, but saying that the current ninja/sam buffs are on the same level as the monk ones is really being out of touch with the whole melee balance right now ^^

I'm still hoping that 5.1 will solve every issue, and it better be. I don't want a Stormblood balance to happen again, where some class had to wait until 4.4 just to be accepted in most pf.

Sure, at max parse on E4S (so people playing the jobs as optimally as it gets), SAM is 460 Rdps behind DRG firmly in the 4th spot and it's also 700 rDPS ahead of SMN (the 5th dps job in damage right now), 5.08 is, according to some fast math I did, an approximate 2,8% damage gain putting SAM rDPS at only 50 rDPS behind DRG, however SAM aDPS will be higher, meaning SAM will be basically equal to the job everyone is calling overpowered a.k.a DRG, BLM and MNK are even more imba, however even the distance between BLM (the most "imba" dps and SAM the last of the OP dps jobs) is way smaller than the dps gap between SAM and SMN.

SAM receiving an almost 3% buff to its dps while everyone behind it got basically nothing is awful balance.

[Lambdafish]

There are some jobs that are better for progging like RDM, there are others that are immune to movement mechanics like ranged DPS, so it seems fair that those who are weak to mechanics (casters and melee) have higher DPS than those who can move freely and have 100% uptime no matter what.

Nobody is saying that ranged DPS should do the same damage as melee DPS, they are saying that the disparity in the damage is causing parties to not value ranged at all.

IMO ranged should be rebalanced to have high utility while keeping their current damage, this would make parties value them while still balancing them against their benefits. That won't happen though, so more damage is needed to make them viable.

[Zyneste]

[Sove92]

I think things are at a reasonable middle ground when Ranged DPS generally performs better in fights that are both highly mobile and impossible to have high uptime for melee.

Point me to a fight in current content where this actually happens. Even older can do.

[ForteNightshade]

No one is seriously considering triple melee.

That is a meme and a trash panda joke.

Fights are frequently built in such a way that triple melee will destroy one players dps. (Even if it is the tank that enslds up screwed).

Dbl black mage tho is a real threat sadly. And ranged do need a bump.

Alternatively tho blm and mnk need a slight nerf. Game pretty easy right now. Ive been saying this for awhile but i think the optimal balance goal is right around 1% below current DRG lvl.

I do also firmly believe that some ranged tax has to exist. They by far have mechanics the easiest because of their mobility. It absolutely shouldnt be as severe as it currently is, but it does need to exist.

Also the SAM balance didnt math NIN right. Nins think the lineup will be MNK>>SAM>DRG=NIN

But its still up in the air till seen in practice via parses.

Actually, yes they are. Neither Voidwalker nor Leviathan have any Range specific mechanics outside Black Smokers. And you can just have a the Scholar handle it. There's also a very real possibility triple melee works for Titan, albeit it with some janky movements. The first set of triangles would just require pulling Titan a bit further back so he's reachable at max melee. Or you have a PLD save their Holy Spirit window for this point. The Merry-go-round is a bit... odd. How you would theoretically handle it is by having them stay in melee range then momentarily step out to drop their triangle marker just before it goes off. They'd lose a couple GCDs but it's manageable. You should skip the last set entirely.

Now that's all speculation on my part, and I certainly don't see PF ever attempting this. But at least two fights are 100% triple melee friendly.

[plasmacutter]

Sure, at max parse on E4S (so people playing the jobs as optimally as it gets), SAM is 460 Rdps behind DRG firmly in the 4th spot and it's also 700 rDPS ahead of SMN (the 5th dps job in damage right now), 5.08 is, according to some fast math I did, an approximate 2,8% damage gain putting SAM rDPS at only 50 rDPS behind DRG, however SAM aDPS will be higher, meaning SAM will be basically equal to the job everyone is calling overpowered a.k.a DRG, BLM and MNK are even more imba, however even the distance between BLM (the most "imba" dps and SAM the last of the OP dps jobs) is way smaller than the dps gap between SAM and SMN.

SAM receiving an almost 3% buff to its dps while everyone behind it got basically nothing is awful balance.

According to fflogs data for the last 2 weeks of savage, MNK is the outlier.. BLM has to be purple to beat a green monk... which is utterly dominating for rdps.

If anything mnk needs that extra dps passed out to the bottom 3 and it didn't happen this patch.

[Marc-Vigar]

Nobody is saying that ranged DPS should do the same damage as melee DPS, they are saying that the disparity in the damage is causing parties to not value ranged at all.

IMO ranged should be rebalanced to have high utility while keeping their current damage, this would make parties value them while still balancing them against their benefits. That won't happen though, so more damage is needed to make them viable.

Is there any job unable to complete the hardest content due failed DPS checks? No. Therefore it's just a matter of community perception. Same thing happens in other games like WoW where if you don't play X job you aren't invited into groups despite being perfectly capable of clearing the content. Elitism is what kills the jobs, not a 2k DPS difference.

There was an exceptional case which was NIN, being melee with it's utility gutted and being bottom DPS, but they already buffed it so now it's time to see how those buffs affect the rankings.

I'm also a big defensor of Easy job = low damage and Hard job = high damage, despite the controversy when measuring difficulty.

Of course there are others that need fixes, DNC needs a slight damage buff and SMN needs a complete rework beacause this oGCD spam is maddening.

[Lina_Slayer]

Actually, yes they are. Neither Voidwalker nor Leviathan have any Range specific mechanics outside Black Smokers. And you can just have a the Scholar handle it. There's also a very real possibility triple melee works for Titan, albeit it with some janky movements. The first set of triangles would just require pulling Titan a bit further back so he's reachable at max melee. Or you have a PLD save their Holy Spirit window for this point. The Merry-go-round is a bit... odd. How you would theoretically handle it is by having them stay in melee range then momentarily step out to drop their triangle marker just before it goes off. They'd lose a couple GCDs but it's manageable. You should skip the last set entirely.

Now that's all speculation on my part, and I certainly don't see PF ever attempting this. But at least two fights are 100% triple melee friendly.

How do triple melee work on E2S tower mechanics tho? Sure it is not a huge dps loss and tanks are doing less damage than SB so losing tank gcds is not a huge issue, but I can't see how you do that without at least some loss.

[ValkyrieL]

Not to be a a## but you are 100% exaggerating, range can NEVER be replaced many mechanics demand that role of range class or you wipe lol.

[Akiudo]

According to fflogs data for the last 2 weeks of savage, MNK is the outlier.. BLM has to be purple to beat a green monk... which is utterly dominating for rdps.

If anything mnk needs that extra dps passed out to the bottom 3 and it didn't happen this patch.

this is so far from the truth one has to wonder if its intentional misinformation sorry but savage data for the last two weeks (all bosses, savage, raid dps) puts a 50% monk (so blue, not green) at 12.599 dps whereas a purple blackmage (exactly 75% percentile) sits at 12.986 , a purple blackmage is contributing nearly 400 dps more (rightfully obviously) to the raid than a BLUE monk, not green, blue so no, blm does not have to be purple to beat a green monk.


and to everyone saying "oh yea, ranged is so easy, movement is free and roation is obviously easy" (because that gets ignored completly, not even saying they are hard, but if bard had movement and would need to perfectly press 50 different buttons to perform well while blackmage had a single button some people would still stay "but blackmage has to work around mechanics, bard has free full uptime"), as it stands right now a 50% (literally barely blue) blm/dragoon/monk contributes about the same raiddamage as a 90% bard (blm is about as much below as monk is above with dragoon right in the middle), if some people really think playing a monk at 50% is about equal to playing a bard at 90% than i don't know what to say

edit:

How do triple melee work on E2S tower mechanics tho? Sure it is not a huge dps loss and tanks are doing less damage than SB so losing tank gcds is not a huge issue, but I can't see how you do that without at least some loss.

they "work" in that it doesnt matter if they lose 2,3,4 or even 10 global cooldowns if their baseline is "offers 1500 dps more"