Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

[dinnertime]

It depends on the direction they take. If they nerf the melee, Black Mage has to be brought down otherwise it's a God without equal. It's a bit silly they would need to increase five jobs' overall rDPS by 1,000—more for Red Mage and Summoner—just because they don't want Black Mages to feel bad about a slight nerf.

Idk, they did say they want the raids to be more accessible/easier to more players and in the recent live letter they mentioned they're going to adjust all the ranged DPS so I think they'll do just that. I really do think ranged DPS is just undertuned while everyone else at the top is actually balanced (except MNK and SAM I guess).

[Maero]

Idk, they did say they want the raids to be more accessible/easier to more players and in the recent live letter they mentioned they're going to adjust all the ranged DPS so I think they'll do just that. I really do think ranged DPS is just undertuned while everyone else at the top is actually balanced (except MNK and SAM I guess).

I actually agree with this.
Some jobs are almost perfect atm (blm as example) the other jobs should see tweaks possibly to gameplay, utilities and dmg to bring the gap closer

[Neela]

I actually agree with this.
Some jobs are almost perfect atm (blm as example) the other jobs should see tweaks possibly to gameplay, utilities and dmg to bring the gap closer

one should be carful with statements like this... blm is fine now if u compare him with the other underrated cls atm... but voices will raise if the dmg gap will shrink - cause "blm has to stand out with his dmg due to lack of utility" phrase. now what if mnk and blm just would be ahead of 200-300 dps again? is blm broke again in that scenario? I bet half of the comm would say so... - so yeah blm is fine as long others lack - but where the border between overturned and undertuned raw dps cls like sam/blm? is it like in the early days? a few hundred? or like atm a few thousands?... Blm will never be "perfect" if all other cls would be balanced right.

[InfiniDragon]

Yoshi's favorite will go untouched. He even played it during the SE Presents stream yesterday after trials of mana was on. They did E1S and E2S on whatever server that was and they cleared e2s before the first quietus since it was a decked party with 3/4 dps being the big hitters.

I think the much more relevant reason that clear was so fast was because of who was playing rather than what they played alone; the SAM in Yoshi's group is 100 percentile.

Those folks he had were extremely highly skilled so that made them using the more powerful jobs DPS wise even more pronounced.

[CKNovel]

I think the much more relevant reason that clear was so fast was because of who was playing rather than what they played alone; the SAM in Yoshi's group is 100 percentile.

Those folks he had were extremely highly skilled so that made them using the more powerful jobs DPS wise even more pronounced.

Yeah and clearing before first Quietus doesn't require an insane DPS. I think you need around 83k DPS on this boss with permanent uptime.
Easy to achieve with 470 weapons. Our comp doesn't have many big hitters (though our DNC went to DRG for practice) and that was a run with 2 deaths and I suffered the Battery bug...

So, not that incredible but easier with good 3 Pantheon DPS.

[deadman1204]

A little late to the party, but the OP does a great job at ignoring ALL benefits of ranged melee. Its a lot of hyperbole

[SaitoHikari]

A little late to the party, but the OP does a great job at ignoring ALL benefits of ranged melee. Its a lot of hyperbole

And what benefits are those, pray tell?

Before you say 'easier handling of mechanics', there are only two ranged baitable mechanics this raid tier (E1S first orbs and Black Smokers at E3S, the latter of which can actually be skipped entirely if the party has high enough DPS), and the tier in general is ridiculously catered to melee. For the few mechanics that may be tricky for melee to handle, teams have come up with ways to get around that (like having everyone stack on DPS flare in E2S, and orb configurations in E1S that let the melee stay inside for uptime). For the few mechanics that force melee to disengage from the boss, you don't lose any more than a single gcd at the very most unless the boss is positioned poorly, you have ping too high to risk getting hit, or you're just bad.

Then again, I'm not sure why someone who doesn't raid is trying to drive-by snip at an OP who has done their research.

[Rika007]

A little late to the party, but the OP does a great job at ignoring ALL benefits of ranged melee. Its a lot of hyperbole

Speaking as a Ranged player for 6 years who's now dropped it? Your right there are plenty of benefits. It's just none of them actually carry any weight compared to the benefits of NOT bringing ranged.

[CKNovel]

A little late to the party, but the OP does a great job at ignoring ALL benefits of ranged melee. Its a lot of hyperbole

Please name the benefits.

All I can think of is the mobility.
Except if you play a BLM like a ranged DPS (Baiting mechanics and dodging like one), you'd actually do more damage than a ranged despite not having the ability to cast while moving.

Also while you are mentionning the OP, remind yourself that they are not only playing Ranged. OP also plays other jobs and has cleared Ultimate content as a Caster.

[Vendalwind]

Please name the benefits.

All I can think of is the mobility.
Except if you play a BLM like a ranged DPS (Baiting mechanics and dodging like one), you'd actually do more damage than a ranged despite not having the ability to cast while moving.

Also while you are mentionning the OP, remind yourself that they are not only playing Ranged. OP also plays other jobs and has cleared Ultimate content as a Caster.

Mobility alone is a huge benefit, because it provides many other sub benefits, and just lumping it into the word mobility massively understates what makes any-range/any-time gcds and skills valuable.

-Not having to alter play, or adapt/recover rotations due to mechanics,
-less needing to know the fight down to your specific skill speeds impacts, because heavy movement phases wont change your rotations or cancel skills.
-less impact on your rotation from other team members,
-ability to recover or adjust from failures without having to neglect or intentionally screw up your skill casts or rotations.
-Never having to risk danger by sneaking in positional
-Never having to hug tight, or worry about more specific over positioning to maintain GCD or other skill up-time. Good example of this is in E2 during chaos/retribution. Melees can maintain perfect up-time even during cycles, BUT it is massively more difficult to do so than as a ranged.
-Consequently to all of the above: less party adaptation is necessary, and your pDPS really can't be negatively effected by anyone elses actions unless they get you killed.
-Ability to suffer knockbacks without stressing about interruption. if you get the move off you get the move off.
-varied different raid events such as uplift in E4 require less foresight and planning than casters who can be interrupted.

Given ranged do have abilities that make some of these not apply, such as DNC for example needing to be in near melee range from time to time to perform perfectly.

But the point is No cast times+ No ranged restrictions + no positionals is an absolute and immediate massive decrease in the difficulty compared to other roles.

This being siad, I don't think the range penalty should be anywhere near as big as it is. All ranged (minus BLM) right now need a significant buff, TBH their DPS should only be minimally behind the rest of the cast.

I also am of the apparent minority that thinks difficulty should be part of the metrics defining balance even tho it is arbitrarily hard to compare with fairness. (particularly because skill gaps in logs aren't accurate depictions due to the varying nature of auto attack's contributions on different classes/roles) Yet this is already in essence why ranged dps tax is considered justifiable at all.

People defending the ranged tax need to realize that they are directly using difficulty to justify balance. I see too many people on these forums go: "Difficulty shouldn't be considered for balance, it is its own reward" then literally say a moment later "Ranged should be taxed because they have mobility" Its literally hypocritical.