Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

[Maero]

But I don't know why I bother with any of it. You're right you are the most important group and the rest of us better just fall in line and abide by whatever Savage raiders want. The next expac should just be a vendor for gear and savage raids, don't even bother with the rest of the content. Could even cap your level when you log in for it.

You are very much missing the points..
Jobs should not be balanced or data obtained to do so from players that simply run normal dungeons.
If you do not see doing adjustments based off feedback from players that run Savage is more beneficial well idk what to say

[Valence]

Other than being in total agreement with the OP, I want to point a couple of things about DPS taxes (mainly, mobility and raise):

- OP explained perfectly why those advantages for ranged physical (raise support and/or mobility advantage) are already included in the rDPS charts.

- Live letter 36 (or 37 was it?), SE specifically answered to a Q&A that they stopped balancing job damage around their (very subjective) "difficulty". This was for the launch of Stormblood. Whether you agree or not with this, I do personally agree and for one main reason: difficulty is subjective and I don't see the problem with some jobs being easy of access while some others require more complexity to play. Everyone can find the thing they like the most in terms of accessibility, while still remaining competitive in rDPS.

- Job balance doesn't matter at low level or casual level. There is no DPS checks to meet, there is no hard requirements that makes being competitive an edge for your team.

- For the raise tax (SMN and especially RDM), you get a "raise tax" on your total DPS. I really find this silly and this for two reasons. First, raising with any of those jobs means wasting GCDs to raise people. This means a drop in damage already. And second, you can argue that having a job able to rez and save the day and allow the party to push on to completion nevertheless can be a thing, true, but in most progression based content the true penalty is when people die, period, and you can't meet the DPS checks anymore ANYWAY. Raising as a party utility is mostly, and has always been mostly universally seen as a progression tool, not a raid DPS clear too.

- For mobility tax, I guess since now we have party boni tied to every role, if we get ranged physical buffed enough, it could survive pretty well and stay in the course as long as its party bonus doesn't get offset hard. As OP said, it would require a significant buff though, not slight increases as promised in the live letter. Ranged physical would probably live decently even with a slight mobility tax penalty just due to the safety of that party bonus margin (which also buffs every personal parse of your party members, so people will want that). We'll still have a problem seeing parties with 2 ranged physical being rather suboptimal though. I would rather see SE give ranged physical actual hurdles of its own that aren't based on cast times / mobility or melee uptime. Just as a reminder, physical ranged damage has always been total garbo and it's nothing new, it was already the case in HW and SB, and the only way to offset it and make it actually either competitive or outright broken in the meta was that damn piercing debuff (10% then 5% !!), that got fortunately nuked out of the sky. Now it's gone, well, people can finally truly admire the true state of ranged physical DPS. And it's not pretty to look at

- Our role abilities and support as ranged physical is just not competitive anymore.

[Myon88]

Well, those of you who watched the live letter today will have seen that they explicitly singled out ranged as a role to receive potency buffs, as well as mentioned melee might be a bit too strong. (No word about BLM though, perhaps we're getting away scot free)

Whatever the case, this should put to rest the debate over whether they deserve buffs or not, the only question is whether it will be enough or not.

[CKNovel]

Whatever the case, this should put to rest the debate over whether they deserve buffs or not, the only question is whether it will be enough or not.

A 5% buff overrall would settle the case.
We can always dream for that 500 dps difference (It's what you loose if you purposely misses all positionnals).
But if, let's say, melee overrall see their rDPS drops by 400-500, MNK with a bigger nerf and the ranged with a 200-300 DPS buff, we would be much closer.

They talked about balance overrall so we'll have to wait for it. In any case, the gap will be reduced from both ends and that's progress.

[Madoka]

Yoshi's favorite will go untouched. He even played it during the SE Presents stream yesterday after trials of mana was on. They did E1S and E2S on whatever server that was and they cleared e2s before the first quietus since it was a decked party with 3/4 dps being the big hitters.

[Kitfox]

I do hope the rebalancing of jobs somehow touches BLM as well because it's not only the melee that we're competing with. Even though we need 5%, SE nerfing melee at the same time makes me think they're not going to brave enough to give a buff that large, which would still make BLM a problem.

[dinnertime]

I think BLM is in a good spot anyway, it's just that the counterparts SMN got heavily nerfed and RDM was left mostly untouched, while BLM got a lot of amazing changes.
They should bring the ranged DPS up instead of nerfing what's at the top. If anything needs nerfing, it's monk.

[ForteNightshade]

I think BLM is in a good spot anyway, it's just that the counterparts SMN got heavily nerfed and RDM was left mostly untouched, while BLM got a lot of amazing changes.
They should bring the ranged DPS up instead of nerfing what's at the top. If anything needs nerfing, it's monk.

It depends on the direction they take. If they nerf the melee, Black Mage has to be brought down otherwise it's a God without equal. It's a bit silly they would need to increase five jobs' overall rDPS by 1,000—more for Red Mage and Summoner—just because they don't want Black Mages to feel bad about a slight nerf.

[Capn_Goggles]

It depends on the direction they take. If they nerf the melee, Black Mage has to be brought down otherwise it's a God without equal. It's a bit silly they would need to increase five jobs' overall rDPS by 1,000—more for Red Mage and Summoner—just because they don't want Black Mages to feel bad about a slight nerf.

iirc they already stated that they won't be bringing melee down this patch. Despite predictions that the sky would fall, it has yet to do so, as standard comps are still pulling superior clear times compared to non-standard. Furthermore, even Dancer is seeing use in top 10 clear time standard comps. The bigger issue is jobs competing within the same role, and right now most of the jobs are balanced well within their specific role... except casters. RDM is, as usual, in a bad spot right now, and there's no real reason to bring summoner as it lost a crapton of mobility and flexibility, which was the whole reason you brought one in SB even after BLM buffs. I'm hoping the buffs in 5.1 are satisfactory for Bard, Machinist players as well, but Dancer, Summoner, and Red Mage are the biggest concerns right now as they're just blatantly underperforming within their respective roles with no real upside.

[ForteNightshade]

iirc they already stated that they won't be bringing melee down this patch. Despite predictions that the sky would fall, it has yet to do so, as standard comps are still pulling superior clear times compared to non-standard. Furthermore, even Dancer is seeing use in top 10 clear time standard comps. The bigger issue is jobs competing within the same role, and right now most of the jobs are balanced well within their specific role... except casters. RDM is, as usual, in a bad spot right now, and there's no real reason to bring summoner as it lost a crapton of mobility and flexibility, which was the whole reason you brought one in SB even after BLM buffs. I'm hoping the buffs in 5.1 are satisfactory for Bard, Machinist players as well, but Dancer, Summoner, and Red Mage are the biggest concerns right now as they're just blatantly underperforming within their respective roles with no real upside.

The only reason you aren't seeing the Range dropped yet is because statics haven't geared what is essentially a third job yet. They're also holding out to see what 5.1 offers in terms of buffs. If nothing changes, you will begin seeing triple melee and double Black Mage. Furthermore, Summoner being buffed is a legitimate concern right now because should they bring it up close enough to Black mage without sufficiently buffing the Range, I have little doubt you'll see SMN/BLM for the range slots in Ultimate.