Storm's Eye Is a Chore

[shao32]

We're talking stop-gap solutions either way. That being said, I still have yet to see a good idea from these forums for how to handle Delirium, and I've been a pretty dedicated topic-stalker in that regard. Maybe it's time for another thread's worth of options in hopes that it isn't likewise cherry-picked for its dullest suggestion?

More like a new thread worth of opinions about the Dev team and his work of DRK evolution or better say DRK involution over the pass of the expansions and still they probably pick the fullest suggestion and make the job a DPS or even better make it a WHM clone this time all day spamming the same spell yay.

[Brandedblade]

This is a fun game. Let's apply it to other classes.

SAM
Shifu and Jinpu are a chore. Kenki is a chore. I just want to be able to Midare Setsugekka all the time without worrying about keeping buffs up. Let's just add the buffs naturally to the job as a passive and reduce the combo to a simple Kasha > Gekko > Yuki so I can Midare every 4th GCD.

WHM
Using Lilies to get Afflatus Misery is a chore. Can we just make it so spending a Lily automatically nukes everything around us for 900 potency? And lower the CD on Lilies down to 1.5s while we're at it too. It's such a chore to have to wait 30 seconds.

BLM
Dodging aoe is a chore. Can we just make it so that BLM is immune to all damage so I can sit there and spam fire 4 the entire time? And make it so that fire 4 costs no mana and refreshes Astral Fire, and every 8th cast uses a Thundercloud proc too. It's such a chore to press buttons other than fire 4.

NIN
Using Trick attack is such a chore. Can we make it so that NIN just automatically applies Trick Attack all the time with every weapon skill? Let's also bake the ninjutsu effects into their weaponskills. Then we can take the average potency of all of that and slap it on a single weapon skill so there's only one button that does everything. This way I can bind that attack to every key on my keyboard, wear a hard helmet IRL, and roll my head across the keyboard and still end up playing optimally. Oh, also, lower NIN GCD to one second so we can maintain the highest APM still too. Gotta keep the skill ceiling high.

Ok, someone else do it now.

Managing Aetherflow stacks are a chore. Can we make it to where my Aetherflow heals no longer consume stacks and casting aetherflow restores 10000 MP? Also make Indom and Excog 1 sec recasts incase the black mage stands in fire?

[Satarn]

What's honestly funniest to me is that IRv2 is a better fit for DRK than WAR.

No, it's really not. It's a dumb mechanic in both cases, just like an upkeep buff which basically can't fall off is a dumb mechanic.

[Shurrikhan]

No, it's really not. It's a dumb mechanic in both cases, just like an upkeep buff which basically can't fall off is a dumb mechanic.

Consider, then, to which is the original a better, a job which cannot manipulate its timings and use the skill to enhance skill-gap and macrorotational concerns leading up to its use, or a job which cannot.

DRK has none of those capabilities. DRK has no macrorotational pressures; its complexity is entirely oGCD. WAR does have the tools to vary macrorotation. DRK is the only job, of the two, that stands to lose nothing from using IRv2, yet would see no benefit from something like IRv1.

Again, I'm not saying "free gauge skills for 10 seconds" is a good design. Far from it. I've been critical of it since it replaced IRv1. But, since Delirium's most often echoed issue is simply that it's "a copy of WAR's IR" (which, of course, it is), Warrior need only revert IR in order to fix that particular issue.

[Satarn]

Consider, then, to which is the original a better, a job which cannot manipulate its timings and use the skill to enhance skill-gap and macrorotational concerns leading up to its use, or a job which cannot.

DRK has none of those capabilities. DRK has no macrorotational pressures; its complexity is entirely oGCD. WAR does have the tools to vary macrorotation. DRK is the only job, of the two, that stands to lose nothing from using IRv2, yet would see no benefit from something like IRv1.

Again, I'm not saying "free gauge skills for 10 seconds" is a good design. Far from it. I've been critical of it since it replaced IRv1. But, since Delirium's most often echoed issue is simply that it's "a copy of WAR's IR" (which, of course, it is), Warrior need only revert IR in order to fix that particular issue.

DelIRium being copied from WAR is the loudest complaint because it's the easiest to see right away. That doesn't mean it's the main problem with DelIRium(in fact if DRK got a good mechanic copied from another job then it wouldn't be so bad even being a copy), nor is DelIRium even the biggest issue with the job right now honestly(imo).

Both WAR and DRK have issues providing satisfying gameplay right now and suggesting IR change on WAR just to differentiate the jobs, is taking attention away from the fact that they both need some big changes. It could potentially fix WAR just by the virtue of replacing bad mechanic with something potentially better, but it wouldn't do jack for DRK.

I just don't think it's productive to suggest kind of offhand, band-aid fixes like this, especially given SE's proven tendency to take the worst possible feedback seriously while ignoring actually well thought out suggestions.

Btw, technically the original "spam one button" mechanic was PLD's Requiscat and in SHB SE kind of doubled down on this by adding Attonment AND revamped MCH's Hypercharge to similar effect. They seriously love this crap for some weird freaking reason.

[Nedkel]

I would change delirium into 12 seconds of infinite mana and any mana thats restored turn into potency bonus for the skill that restore it.
That would give some depth for drk.

[Shurrikhan]

I would change delirium into 12 seconds of infinite mana and any mana thats restored turn into potency bonus for the skill that restore it.
That would give some depth for drk.

How? That's literally just swapping Bloodspiller spam for EoS spam and a free TBN. Not to mention it'd be about four times as strong, given that an oGCD has no opportunity cost.

[Shurrikhan]

DelIRium being copied from WAR is the loudest complaint because it's the easiest to see right away. That doesn't mean it's the main problem with DelIRium(in fact if DRK got a good mechanic copied from another job then it wouldn't be so bad even being a copy), nor is DelIRium even the biggest issue with the job right now honestly(imo).

Both WAR and DRK have issues providing satisfying gameplay right now and suggesting IR change on WAR just to differentiate the jobs, is taking attention away from the fact that they both need some big changes. It could potentially fix WAR just by the virtue of replacing bad mechanic with something potentially better, but it wouldn't do jack for DRK.

I just don't think it's productive to suggest kind of offhand, band-aid fixes like this, especially given SE's proven tendency to take the worst possible feedback seriously while ignoring actually well thought out suggestions.

Btw, technically the original "spam one button" mechanic was PLD's Requiscat and in SHB SE kind of doubled down on this by adding Attonment AND revamped MCH's Hypercharge to similar effect. They seriously love this crap for some weird freaking reason.

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

[shao32]

it's not like DRK couldn't get one if they need it, i mean Delirium is the biggest problem here but bloodweapon is badly adapted to his new purpose due how annoying is land 5 GCD on it or the status of AD and salted earth, the job could get ajustments on the darkside department too, TBN is the only competent change they get and is not free of dilema either.
i will preffer they come back to SB desing of bloodspiller and delirium since the only gameplay complaing of that day DA is no more and edge potency cover a low rate of spam with the new mp rates.

[Izsha]

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

Inner Release V1 for pres, old berserk VP 2020! Make warrior great again!