Emet-Selch

[Scintilla]

What part was relatable? The genocide bit or the insane mad god worshipper?

Or perhaps it's the: 'dedicating the rest of his life to doing what he feels to be best for his people, even thousands of years later, in the hope that he might one day see them again' bit that was omitted from your list?

You don't have to agree with a character to be able to sympathise and relate to them.

[Baalfrog]

Or perhaps it's the: 'dedicating the rest of his life to doing what he feels to be best for his people, even thousands of years later, in the hope that he might one day see them again' bit that was omitted from your list?

You don't have to agree with a character to be able to sympathise and relate to them.

He was a tempered madman, thats why he cared so much instead of becoming apathetic and cynical old man like immortals overtime should become.

[Scintilla]

He was a tempered madman, thats why he cared so much instead of becoming apathetic and cynical old man like immortals overtime should become.

'Should become'? Since when has becoming both apathetic and cynical been compulsory for any immortal being, with the lack of such characteristics being considered abnormal and the result of some unnatural interference (in this case, tempering)?

Tempered? Yes, something he is not only fully aware of, but openly admits to. A 'madman'? Totally subjective. It is also highly likely that a certain proportion of his motivations are a result of his tempering, however, to claim that it would be the sole influence of his actions is an assumption. In contrast to Elidibus and Lahabrea who have both spoken of little other than the of the freeing of Zodiark and the maintenance of balance, Emet-Selch spent just as much time (if not more) talking of Amaurot and it's people, even going so far as to recreate an illusion of the living city and shadows of it's inhabitants. Whilst he undoubtedly considers Zodiark's return as a top priority, from what we've seen so far, Emet also seems heavily driven by the prospect restoring the Ancients, far more than any of his comrades. This difference may imply that the Ascian's are far from thoughtless puppets of Zodiark's, with each still somewhat influenced by their own values and aims. Ultimately, there's still much we don't know and future revelations may support or disprove everything I just said. Little is certain.

[AmemeAmeklin]

What if Emet-Selch is actually our twin brother?

We're blue, he's red, we stand on opposite sides but are really the same sort, the game loves blue and red twins...

[Absimiliard]

'Should become'? Since when has becoming both apathetic and cynical been compulsory for any immortal being, with the lack of such characteristics being considered abnormal and the result of some unnatural interference (in this case, tempering)?

Should is most likely the wrong word to use there since this sort of thing is highly subjective. That said, the archetype of the jaded immortal has been used in works of fiction time and time again. One might even say it's one of the most commonly used tropes in stories that feature excessively old and/or powerful immortal beings. The archetype is typically invoked when an immortal is of such age that even other immortal beings in the same setting seem young by comparison. We've no clue just how much the tempering changed Emet-Selch, but I do believe he could reasonably have developed much the same personality as what we got to see in-game without ever having been subjected to it at all. That man (if you can call him that) is, at least according to himself, even older than Zodiark and Hydaelyn.

[Baalfrog]

'Should become'?

Excactly! Immortality is a pretty big deal, when everything you have and everyone you know (in this case) would disappear from around him. Now if this was the world of old, then it wouldn't matter since it would be natural for them, but he is the unnatural being in this case, which would very likely shift his perspectives and he would probably end up like the elves from Lord of the Rings for example, jaded and apathetic as the world passes them by essentially.

Now here is the interesting question we should be asking, him being tempered is the key here. Anything he does with any kind of enthusiasm and fanatism really, is essentially Zodiark's plan. kill the WoL, so the threat the WoL is, is gone, which is good for return of the ancients and blablabla all that. The reason he wants to do that really is just cause Zodiark is like, bring these guys back so I have more worshippers, also so I can eat all the things. Nothing he really wants to accomplish, rejoining, genocide, bringing back his old mates, is all just so Zodiark can live. This effectively makes him a slave to a genocidal god and whoever he was is long gone. Maybe his personality and such is intact, but all his actions and fanatical belief in what he does is right, very very likely stems from the fact that there is a god poking at him and being like "Hey, do this so I can reward you! Oh, and also eat all the things!"

This all wraps up backwards pretty nicely, because in a sense, he is "human" to a sense, just absurdly strong and long lived compared to post-sundering humans, but he is a human from the world prior. So why doesn't he doubt his beliefs, why isn't he questioning anything, all we see is him (and his kin) and their endless machinations, 100% devotion to the cause, which to me tells that they are essentially slaves to Zodiark's will at this point, draving the endless strenght, patience and faith in the endgame they have, working tirelessly without doubt or ever tiring, something that even almost incomprehensibly powerful beings would eventually face in due time.

I do think that Emet-Selch is a decent villian, it does clear the whole Ascian plot quite a bit, explains a lot on how the universe works, which is all good. Buuut, overall he and the other Ascians suffer from few things, 1. they are obviously super evil, 2. they wear black coats, 3. they are nigh unkillable and probably can't die due to age and 4. are on paper so much stronger than any beings on the universe. These things mean that they are doomed to fail anyway, so there is no real tension. If Ascians are involved, you know whatever they planned on doing will eventually fail. Its just how it goes, if they did succeed, the wold would end, and now its not just a wild guess, their evil god would come and consume all life and maybe bring back a few guys, if he can even do that. So end of the world evil dudes in black coats, in a JRPG? They automatically fail, 100% of the time.

Many of his reasons were just even if his actions were not.

Are they just, when the reasons are not his own reasons, but the reasons of the god commanding him, only to quarantee the continued excistence of said god?

[Ayuhra]

He was a tempered madman, thats why he cared so much instead of becoming apathetic and cynical old man like immortals overtime should become.

Sure he was a tempered genocidal shadow being but from his perspective the Warrior of Light is a tempered murder hobo. So there's that!

[Anthony]

What part was relatable? The genocide bit or the insane mad god worshipper?

Oh don't get me wrong, those are definitely the elements that polarized us as heroes into going against him! however if you look at it though his eyes, which I think the writers def did a good job in trying to get us to do, he is just doing anything he can to bring his people back. From his view they were at the peek of existence - creating other living things, and as a leader of his people, he made and continued to follow a hard choice. After hydaelyn shows up and stomps zodiark, clearly he is a doomed character (obviously if he's been trying to fix things for thousands(?) of years, with a fundamentally different mindset - i'm guessing is that not all life is equal or of value.

The story portrayed to me at least that he did not see his actions as genocide, clearly yes from our-side of the picture, and i think we can argue that his original character aligned with zodiark because he/they created zodiark with that intent.

The points I think I found most relatable were the explanations of his actions from his point of view during all the side quests as part of the MSQ in Amaurot. I'm very curious how the story would have played out if we were able to control the light and we didn't "fail" his test. What mutual understanding would/could have been reached.

[Esmart]

What part was relatable? The genocide bit or the insane mad god worshipper?

I do not consider you to be truly alive. Ergo, I will not be guilty of murder if I kill you.

If you had to erase all the FFXIV NPCs to bring back your loved ones, would you lose much sleep over it? I mean, looking from the outside - all the characters are NPCs, they are equal, so one NPC saying he's more alive than other NPCs - yeah, right. But the in-game logic is not the same.

[YianKutku]

I do not consider you to be truly alive. Ergo, I will not be guilty of murder if I kill you.

If you had to erase all the FFXIV NPCs to bring back your loved ones, would you lose much sleep over it? I mean, looking from the outside - all the characters are NPCs, they are equal, so one NPC saying he's more alive than other NPCs - yeah, right. But the in-game logic is not the same.

If I had to erase all the FFXIV NPCs from my computer and only my computer to bring back my loved ones, then yes, I would consider it.

If I had to erase all the FFXIV NPCs from everyone's computers, and indeed uninstall FFXIV from the world and remove it from existence, then no, I would not do it.

It's the difference between doing something that is a loss to myself and only myself, and doing something that is a loss to everyone.

Similarly, I would not, say, erase every single chicken or dog from the world just to bring back my loved ones. But that's what Emet-Selch is proposing, in that his plan would also kill the dragons, who are very much not Sundered souls.

EDIT: Also if the FFXIV NPCs suddenly appealed personally to me not to erase them, showing signs of sapience (or, to use a standard from Mass Effect's Mordin, the ability to perform advanced calculus as a species), then absolutely not would I sacrifice them to bring my loved ones back.