Why does battle high exist?

[JanVanding]

You assume too much. Don’t assume your definition of PvP is a universal fact because it is not. Anything that move and it is not same colour as you, it is legit killable target. Sprout will grow up one day and straggler will learn from the mistake. You don’t punish veterans just because sprouts can not take heat.

Spoken like a WAR Bright Wizard "Combust is fine, it's not might fault people can't handle it"

Again, I stress it's not the presence of the buff, it's the size of the increase, it's too much, everyone knows it's too much, that's why the defense revolves around "Git Gud" which is the last bastion of those that have nothing to add.

Edit: Just to note, I can pull from a plethora of PVP centric MMOs where such arguments have been uttered and in the end, the nerfbat came. Sometimes far harder than it should have. It was because of this lack of acceptance among the most diehard defenders, instead of going "okay, it's overpowered, here's how it could be adjusted so it's not utter garbage" where they might have fostered better rapport with their fellow players and devs if they had just been honest and given that bit of ground.

I remember Bright Wizards getting an entire spec nerfed into the ground all because they would not accept that maybe, just maybe it was over-tuned and as class ambassadors, they could have offered good feedback to avoid that situation.

[Divinemights]

Don’t know what Bright Wizard is and don’t know which game coming from but it sounds to me a job design failure to me. (Please do correct me if I am wrong.). This is not the same as a combat mechanic that is available to everyone. Literally everyone, just like kill streak in Call of Duty.

[KageTokage]

It's available to everyone, but it's a crapshoot as to whether or not you'll even get high/fever since you can't guarantee the same players are going to be getting kills all time (Though the chances are obviously higher on burst heavy classes like DNC/BLM) unless you're in a premade or something which makes it inherently flawed as a balancing mechanic.

What practically amounts to luck can make the difference between an evenly matched team ending up with no highs/fever or multiple fevers.

[Divinemights]

This type of players usually post no real threat, because their BF/BH is from kill steal (most of them; there are exceptions). A good tank will mark this type of players and they will be removed fair quickly because of focus fire. Especially , post 4.5 you should always focus fire range jobs on the Frontline.

[Rhais]

Short duration or greatly lowered bonuses, why are you so against that? Is it because maybe, just maybe, you're one of those actually abusing the Anti-PvP strat and you don't want the meta to change away from that?

I'm against it because it's unnecessary, because the mechanic is not this overpowered unstoppable thing you make it out to be and things should not be changed based off of erroneous, false claims.

The group of people I PvP with do not ever just go farming for battle highs, we balance objectives with fighting, and often have less highs then opponents, yet we still win the majority of our matches. Dealing with parties or alliances with highs/fevers is not some impossible task, it's not some busted mechanic so why would I want to see it changed?

This really is just an issue of being outplayed, and rather then admitting it and improving your parties game blaming your loss on one mechanic. I can not support something being changed when it is clearly being used as a means to avoid facing the fact that the opponents you were facing were just better than your party. And as far as nerfs go just because something is given one doesn't mean it really was an issue, sometimes devs listen to the chronic whining of the incompetent and make changes to the detriment of the game to appease them.

[BloodRubyXII]

This type of players usually post no real threat, because their BF/BH is from kill steal (most of them; there are exceptions). A good tank will mark this type of players and they will be removed fair quickly because of focus fire. Especially , post 4.5 you should always focus fire range jobs on the Frontline.

Yeah, to be honest, this is going to be another 6 pages of people going round in "git gud" circles but it's just meme to continue at this point, but anyone decent knows how to play vs battle high. It isn't an autowin condition unless an entire premade has it in 24man - even then you can still win because there's rarely any premades that take FL seriously enough to play flawlessly. The mechanics been in the game ages and yet people who have come to do the last bit of garo push are crying now because it's a mechanic that only causes salt if you're bad or new and most of these players won't be heard from again when PvP is just worth exp and marks and are never around to otherwise provide constructive feedback to SE throughout PvP seasons and patches - so I don't even know why I bother arguing this case anymore.

I'm gonna head out.

[KageTokage]

I feel like battle high kind of creates an unstable equilibrium where a team can sometimes gain a huge amount of momentum from winning one engagement because a few specific players on their team were hogging enough kills to get it. In the average match, though, the kills tend to be spread too thin for highs to build up quickly and start going out of control.

Some might argue that it's rewarding "skill" if you're getting killing blows, but it encouraging you to fight over kills with other players on your team by resorting to extremely overkill use of LBs/cooldown abilities to ensure you're getting the last hit seems...counterintuitive (It might explain why melee DPS are blowing their LBs on me when I'm alone and getting mobbed with less then half of my HP left...). I feel like all that should matter is that the player is dead and I like the Rival Wings system of rewarding the whole team a weaker buff for racking up kills for that reason.

People can feel free to keep misinterpreting any kind of negative talk about the mechanic as salt or crying, though. At this point, I thoroughly understand why people like/dislike it, but that just makes me wish it could be tweaked in some ways even more. I suppose 5.1 might bring some changes. I'd mostly like it to be rewarded based on damage dealt as opposed to killing blows because I'd be getting it a heck of a lot more often if that were the case. It would also make it harder to deliberately feed kills to one member of a premade group to ensure they're triggering it ASAP.

[Divinemights]

I hope you realize by now that you are not making any progress on this topic to no where. Every paths lead to same dead end: “you need to git gud”. There is no point to make further discussion because both side will agree each other and I am not going teach you 101 ways of correctly remove BF/BH players.

[KageTokage]

I don't really intend/expect for this to go anywhere and was just putting in a last word, TBH.

Some people are okay with how it is now, others aren't. Such is the case for several other aspects of XIV in general and nothing will change that.

I do find it a bit weird that people don't think there's anything about the mechanic that needs tweaking at all, but I guess they're just fine with having their kill credit stolen by some random after they did like 90% of the work.

I'm also perfectly aware of how to remove them but actually putting it into practice is the hard part when you can't control the behavior of other players on your team. They should be instinctively trying to focus down players with highs but they just...don't a lot of the time. Maybe telling them you get bonus marks for killing them before a match starts will help...

[Samsta]

Spoken like a WAR Bright Wizard "Combust is fine, it's not might fault people can't handle it"

Again, I stress it's not the presence of the buff, it's the size of the increase, it's too much, everyone knows it's too much, that's why the defense revolves around "Git Gud" which is the last bastion of those that have nothing to add.

Edit: Just to note, I can pull from a plethora of PVP centric MMOs where such arguments have been uttered and in the end, the nerfbat came. Sometimes far harder than it should have. It was because of this lack of acceptance among the most diehard defenders, instead of going "okay, it's overpowered, here's how it could be adjusted so it's not utter garbage" where they might have fostered better rapport with their fellow players and devs if they had just been honest and given that bit of ground.

I remember Bright Wizards getting an entire spec nerfed into the ground all because they would not accept that maybe, just maybe it was over-tuned and as class ambassadors, they could have offered good feedback to avoid that situation.

Bright wizard? I thought you were talking about warhammer fantasy there for a sec lol