My 2 cents as a high ranked WoW PvP'er

[Michieltjuhh]

Another one of these threads. I'm sure you're all sick of em by now as I see there's more of them around, but I like giving feedback so here it goes. I have yet to do a Rival Wings.

Frontlines
The problem of a 1v1v1 will always remain the same: those that fight gain nothing while the third walks away with the victory. The fact that there's absolutely no incentive to fight to begin with does not help. Playing Shatter right now and seriously; you just tunnel vision the crystals and hope they spawn near your base and you win the game. In an ideal scenario, there is literally no PvP involved. If you do see the other teams fighting, you cap their base and win automatically (this goes for Seize as well). If the best option in PvP is 'run away and get points', then you failed the design of a battleground, or 'Frontline'. There should be an incentive to fight.
Also, I've seen at least one bot so far and I could not even find an option to report.

Onward to the Feast
Lets start with queue times
When I go 2 hours into a queue in the afternoon or at midnight (as a healer), it's a good indication of how dead it is. I have yet to get a ranked match going (haven't tried much, I have to admit). I understand that it's pre-season, but when you can't find 7 likeminded players within 2 hours for current content in an MMORPG that's not a good sign.

The design itself
Suppose I'll go into class design here. I saw some folks complaining that you have 'too few abilities'. I for one am not against the design of quality over quantity. I personally love games like Bloodline Champions/Battlerite or your local MOBA that don't overwhelm you with buttons to press but instead are about pressing them in the right order at the right time with teamwork involved. The Feast seems to offer that.

The problem
No, the problem lies not in class design. Not as far as I've seen anyway. The problem here lies in the fact that winning for the first 5 minutes is entirely meaningless unless you reach 600. I understand that 6 minutes of an almost guaranteed loss is painful, and the medal design is there to ensure that a comeback is always possible. This may look good in comparison to a point design where after a certain amount of points you can count your team out entirely (Frontlines), or a last-man-standing design where if you die, you're gone until the next round/match (WoW).

But it isn't. And it DEFINITELY isn't when the Adrenaline Rushes are a thing. When a melee can do 80% of a ranged's healthbar in a single near unavoidable button, it doesn't take much before that ranged is dead. So what's stopping you from saving that Adrenaline Rush until 1 minute remaining and then just murdering some of them with sheer imbalance followed by turtling to victory?

Rant over. I'll see what happens when the season actually happens, but right now it's not looking pretty.

[BrianRicardo]

Please Queue up for Training Queue during Preseason. It's already well known that the PVP community is small, and would not support Training Queue and Ranked at the same time especially on NA/EU Datacenters.

Have you played post 5.05? What you said about medals is not the case anymore. There are no heavy debuffs or light medal buffs. Winning in the first 5 mins will likely mean you will win the whole game now.

[BloodRubyXII]

I haven't played WoW since around S23, and my last R1 was in S20; weird flex but yea, just figured you'd also get an opinion from someone similar whilst differing greatly (also around 2200 feast rating exp back I haven't taken ladder seriously since like whenever the chair mount season was lmao, and I think I last queued ranked in S9 and just stopped at safe 100)

Since in Frontlines typically there are nodes/cap points that'll yield greater rewards than others, the strategy is there, it's just PvPers are meme and will just do w.e they want, if you don't get involved in battles or try to rotate map and dodge, you'll probably lose, but that'd be in a case with a decent amount of premades. Anything can happen otherwise.

Training is dead most just play for tomes and because Garo is ending soon, the ranked PvP community is small. When the season starts, queues are dependent on what roles we're short on, if you want to get decent queues, learn to play other roles; but don't expect queues to be like WoWs where PvP is considered more significant content and don't expect matches at 2am, our PvP playerbase is just not that big and it's not intended to be a serious activity. Saying that the design is not bad, but then using MOBAs as an example implies you didn't play Feast when we had PvE abilities + PvP ones and that you haven't really played many games in general. There's incredibly little depth and dealing damage and healing through it is exceptionally one dimensional, there's very little room for actual skilled plays.

Good players know how to predict and avoid a melee LB by the way, everyone knows when it's ready so if you know it's late game and it still hasn't been used, you're probably going to get interrupted/peeled off or disengaged from to cancel it.

PS: We don't have a medal system anymore, also as the floor is open - scholar is still really bad and it's incredible SE hasn't noticed how weak it is.

[legione]

Frontlines
If you do see the other teams fighting, you cap their base and win automatically (this goes for Seize as well).

? theres no home base to steal in seize, i guess you mean secure

overall defending and relying completly on rng is the best way to lose.

bb

[Guesswhat]

Welp, when it comes to frontline, the "avoid fight strat" only applies if your team are full of bots/pugs or players who don't know how to fight (there are surprisingly many of those). Other than that, if you are in a position to flank a team, you should ALWAYS do it. At least if you like to win and PvP. In that regard you should take advantage of the 1v1v1. It's the best way to get an advantage as teams lose points pr KO. Every kill grants you a 10 point advantage in any frontline mode. That is also the reason you never defend a node in seize alone (in most cases, certain times it may be a smart choice).

But playing in teams of randoms it's really hard to get something as basic as this in to their heads. Although, imo, it should be a no-brainer. If you can flank, you should flank.

[Yianyan]

There's plenty of reason to PvP in Frontline: it's one of the three (sometimes two) ways to get points. Certainly temporary objectives build much more and bases build constant points but every kill earns 5 points. Additionally the team that player belonged to loses those 5 points. FURTHER, if a party member secures multiple kills without dying they get fairly significant boosts to their damage which helps in securing objectives in all maps.

There is very real benefit to pursuing and eliminating enemies. The beautiful tricky balance is choosing when to pursue, when to give up chase, where to position, and which objectives to go for. Even more chaotic is trying to convince others, whether through direct chat or just leading by moving, to go along with you.

You can know what needs to be done but if only 4 of you go to the objective/engage the leading team, and the entire enemy team just kills you, you've done less than nothing: you've lost points.

[Strywin]

They should bring back 8vs8 Feast with the map rotation because that was not dead content unlike rival wings and actually had consistent fighting plus the queues were like what, less than 5 minutes during prime time. I agree the design choices they made for frontlines matches can be quite lacking because sometimes a team would rather have the other 2 teams " fight it out ", ignore and try get the drones or ice so yeah, discourage pvp and mostly focus on the pve objectives. I would not be too mad if they changed the frontlines fights into 1 vs 1 instead of the current 1vs1vs1 Grand Company shenanigans.

[BloodRubyXII]

SNIP.

8s were actually fun and a nice alternative to Frontlines, I'd welcome them back because I'm convinced they must have given at least a few people confidence to move into ranked solo queue.

[Crit]

as someone whose high level in both games in both pvps



ya ur on point have a cookie fam also bring me some cats theyre quite cuddly

[Michieltjuhh]

While Frontline PvP might be somewhat valuable in a premade, it's still a pug-based system. What you can gain for actually fighting others in a pug is far too little compared to just doing the objectives and disengaging, considering you risk losing way more if people aren't on the same page. Also been on the receiving end of premades now. Makes playing a healer feel incredibly depressing. Melee Adrenaline Rush is so insanely anti-fun. I understand you can stun it and such, but when there's 5 of them zerging you I can't even imagine a full premade stopping all of them from 1-shotting you with a point-and-click button, let alone these random pugs.

Saying that the design is not bad, but then using MOBAs as an example implies you didn't play Feast when we had PvE abilities + PvP ones and that you haven't really played many games in general. There's incredibly little depth and dealing damage and healing through it is exceptionally one dimensional, there's very little room for actual skilled plays.

Good players know how to predict and avoid a melee LB by the way, everyone knows when it's ready so if you know it's late game and it still hasn't been used, you're probably going to get interrupted/peeled off or disengaged from to cancel it.

PS: We don't have a medal system anymore, also as the floor is open - scholar is still really bad and it's incredible SE hasn't noticed how weak it is.

I have indeed not played prior to ShB. Only joined the game late SB. While I agree there is less depth to PvP here than in a MOBA (nowadays anyhow; I'd argue DOTA 2 for example had some characters in the past with so little depth that a toddler could play them) or a game like Battlerite, since those optimize skillshots compared to point-and-click, I do think there's enough that skill plays a factor due to how teamwork naturally works. I do find Adrenaline Rushes are the limiting factor to that, though. While interrupting them is possible, it does limit you in what you are allowed to do since you need to be ready to interrupt their essentially free kill if you don't. Never liked this all-or-nothing playstyle, but maybe others do.