Primal drop system, still no changes?!

[Wevlum]

And what if you had killed him 200 times and had one weapon? or 300 for three weapons? I'm happy you have had such stupendous results, but i doubt you'd be so chipper if the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak. The people who say "deal with it" are the lucky SOBs who actually get good rates.

Yeah but you're forgetting, if we haven't had his success we're lying about how many runs we've done.

[Kinseykinz]

Clearly SE is happy with the current ratio of players with Ifrit weapons to players without Ifrit weapons. It's called balance, and maintaining balance, and ensuring that the whole of Eorzea doesn't have 7 Ifrit weapons sitting in their inventories and a further 7 in their retainer(s).

I personally think a lot of people exaggerate a LOT about how times they've fought Ifrit (sure you've fought Ifrit over 9000 times but how many have you actually beaten him?) and only ever received 1 totem. I've probably done about 50 runs - I have 5 weapons and have collected over 10 totems (through drops and also a passing /random system). The loot system is fine - it is balanced and when you stand in Uldah don't tell me you don't see Ifrit/Moogle weapons everywhere you turn. So you personally have been unlucky? Deal with it. The solution is not to break balance.

1. Most people either count their fights or they count their tapers
2. Some of the people asking for a change are in Elite, endgame, 'my gear is sexier than your gear' ls's. You can bet they spent days, probably weeks farming these primals, with no luck.
3. If you'd like me to count the losses+ the wins I'd be closer to 400+ fights. As I lead a mid-core shell, I end up teaching ALOT of people how to do this fight.
4. Let me be super frank, I am a mage...neither primal drops anything I really would use on my main jobs at this moment in time. However, I think this is an absurd way to reward players for a battle. So when I say 'we can't fight it solo, therefore the reward shouldn't be solo. Let us pass weapons, get rid of tokens.' I am saying this from the standpoint of: I would like to be able to HELP my friends get the stuff they want and need.

Also, when did you get your 50 wins...those of us unlucky enough to Kill Iffy when the content was new didn't have the luxury of getting a totem to drop occasionally. It was DM or a weapon....and all I ever saw was DM. Basically, some of our souls were crushed 3 patches ago...

[Antipika]

No no no you are doing it all wrong.

We want to work towards something, killing one primal = 1 token, 10 fights you get a weapon.

Allowing to pass the loot will end up with us having Darklight style drop rates and I'm willing to bet nobody wants that.

The reason why WoW is so popular is because you can go into a dungeon or raid and get a token for ever boss you kill, these tokens can be saved up and handed in to get better gear (not the best) but its good enough for most.

I would compare it to going to work for a week, strolling into the bosses office for my paycheck and him saying "wait you have to throw this dice first, you can only have your wages if you roll a 3"

WoW can do that because they have content and a complete different itemization system than we have on XIV. As of today, Ifrit/Mog weapons are still among the bests implemented in game and it's been a while...

You do not want to kill that in just "10 runs". Everyone would have stop doing Ifrit already if 10 runs was enough to get the weapon of your choice. Most of us did 50 runs at least, and not everyone have all classes to 50 (or want to bother equipping them), so Ifrit would simply be dead. New players would have a hard time finding a party of people still in need of these weapons.

Passing the loot or whatever is again completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters in the end is the probability of having the weapon of your choice. No matter how you improve the system, you modify that value. Could it be :

- Improved drop rate (weapons and/or tokens)
- Make it impossible to obtain a weapon you already own (i.e. if you have weapon A, A cannot drop again, the game replaces it with another)
- Being able to pass the weapon to anyone you want
- Reduce weapon token cost

Are DEVs eager to improve that value? No, just not yet.

[Jinko]

WoW can do that because they have content and a complete different itemization system than we have on XIV. As of today, Ifrit/Mog weapons are still among the bests implemented in game and it's been a while.

Ifrit is best of slot.

Moogle is 2nd best

Garuda will be -- anyones guess.

Garlean weapons -- ??

We are getting more content with each patch and in 2.0 the amount of content will be much bigger (I assume they plan more content for the release of 2.0 or shortly after

You do not want to kill that in just "10 runs". Everyone would have stop doing Ifrit already if 10 runs was enough to get the weapon of your choice. Most of us did 50 runs at least, and not everyone have all classes to 50 (or want to bother equipping them), so Ifrit would simply be dead. New players would have a hard time finding a party of people still in need of these weapons.

The majority of the players have multiple classes if not all battle classes at 50 now and will aim for 7/7 on most weapons, so I don't think its a matter of doing 10 fights and thats the end of it.

Also what about helping friends and LS members, are you saying once you got your main weapon you wouldn't help anyone ?

[Firon]

WoW can do that because they have content and a complete different itemization system than we have on XIV. As of today, Ifrit/Mog weapons are still among the bests implemented in game and it's been a while...

You do not want to kill that in just "10 runs". Everyone would have stop doing Ifrit already if 10 runs was enough to get the weapon of your choice. Most of us did 50 runs at least, and not everyone have all classes to 50 (or want to bother equipping them), so Ifrit would simply be dead. New players would have a hard time finding a party of people still in need of these weapons.

Passing the loot or whatever is again completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters in the end is the probability of having the weapon of your choice. No matter how you improve the system, you modify that value. Could it be :

- Improved drop rate (weapons and/or tokens)
- Make it impossible to obtain a weapon you already own (i.e. if you have weapon A, A cannot drop again, the game replaces it with another)
- Being able to pass the weapon to anyone you want
- Reduce weapon token cost

Are DEVs eager to improve that value? No, just not yet.

Drop system is still bad it sucks to get a weapon to you don't need when you don't have that class lvled. This why ppl propose the 1 token for every win, hell it doesn't even have to be every win it could be something like an 505 drop rate i could live with that. I know quite a few ppl who only have 1 job 50 and then they get an ifrits sword they can't use.

[Antipika]

Drop system is still bad it sucks to get a weapon to you don't need when you don't have that class lvled. This why ppl propose the 1 token for every win, hell it doesn't even have to be every win it could be something like an 505 drop rate i could live with that. I know quite a few ppl who only have 1 job 50 and then they get an ifrits sword they can't use.

Thanks captain obvious. Even the DEV know it is broken. Again stop thinking that game designers are stupid.

You already killed your proposal with your own post. "I know few ppl who only have 1 job 50". If you make totem drop rate as high as 50%, it still mean 20 runs in average = 1 weapon of your choice. Then what these players will do? Spam Ifrit just for fun? Hardly doubt it, because it's not fun anymore after a while and it just becomes pure grind.

As for players saying "I did X run and I got nothing" while "Someone else did less runs and got more", that's just basic randomness, as we have with... everything? Some players may succeed at triple meld tier IV materia in one go, while you may fail 50 times before succeeding.

I'm not trying to defend the DEV, nor I enjoy the current system (done around 70 runs, 1 totem, 1 PUG weapon while my PUG is not 50). But unlike most here I somewhat try to understand the position they're in and why they force players to go through the same content over and over until they can deliver more.

[Antipika]

That's when we will have greed/need

[Visgal]

You don't need to change anything SE, i like you the way you are /dance

[Ryodi]

I think a reasonable way to help alleviate the frustrations of duplicates would be to implement a way to exchange a duplicate weapon into a totem/nut within the instance. I imagine this would be complicated to do and would likely involve introducing an npc into the instance you could trade existing weapons to and let the new weapons drop to you. I'd say one to two items in exchange for a duplicate would help people out alot getting what they want without making it really easy to obtain them.

[bobbygunz]

It doesn't make any sense that ifrit would drop a premade weapon anyway. I mean, what? Was he carrying it around in his pockets or something? Ifrit fight should have dropped some kind of material from the start, and you should have traded it to an NPC for the weapon of your choice. Or something.