Primal drop system, still no changes?!

[ssppiikkeeyy]

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

drop rate would still be better i think. i done ifrit 73 runs and got 1 totem no weapon drop the rate is beyond to low, this is nice if the totem would acully drop.

[Sigmakan]

drop rate would still be better i think. i done ifrit 73 runs and got 1 totem no weapon drop the rate is beyond to low, this is nice if the totem would acully drop.

Can I have some of your DM? I'm starting to run low

[ssppiikkeeyy]

Can I have some of your DM? I'm starting to run low

lol yes u may i have 23 stacks of it atm lol

[elreed]

drop rate would still be better i think. i done ifrit 73 runs and got 1 totem no weapon drop the rate is beyond to low, this is nice if the totem would acully drop.

Look i know you all like to have all the weapons as possible in the less time as possible, but do you really want to dumb down content? Im actually happy that the dev team said that Darklight gear wont be easily drop, if you put effort in something you should have a reward for that, thats why i feel that this dumbs down a lot the rewards, yeah i dont have all he ifrit weapons yet but its been a long time that those weapons were released and are still the best.

If you make runs daily even if you're so unlucky you can get at least one totem, nut charm so if u need 10 well maybe in 10 days you can have enough items to trade a weapon and maybe another weapon droped in those 10 days, i think that people that are even saying that its unfair is the people who does 2-3 runs and then leaves it for a few days, i've done over 250 runs and i have 4/7 weapons even one i had to buy it because it had low drop rate, but im glad that i got it, i keep going there to get my axe i dont mind not having mage weapons.

Maybe in 2.0 they will add the greed/need system and im glad they wont dumb down drop rate

[Wevlum]

Look i know you all like to have all the weapons as possible in the less time as possible, but do you really want to dumb down content? Im actually happy that the dev team said that Darklight gear wont be easily drop, if you put effort in something you should have a reward for that, thats why i feel that this dumbs down a lot the rewards, yeah i dont have all he ifrit weapons yet but its been a long time that those weapons were released and are still the best.

If you make runs daily even if you're so unlucky you can get at least one totem, nut charm so if u need 10 well maybe in 10 days you can have enough items to trade a weapon and maybe another weapon droped in those 10 days, i think that people that are even saying that its unfair is the people who does 2-3 runs and then leaves it for a few days, i've done over 250 runs and i have 4/7 weapons even one i had to buy it because it had low drop rate, but im glad that i got it, i keep going there to get my axe i dont mind not having mage weapons.

Maybe in 2.0 they will add the greed/need system and im glad they wont dumb down drop rate

You can't dumb down what's already retarded. How can you claim repeating the same fight 500 times is challenging. I can do Ifrit on god damn autopilot by now. Again, a challenging fight is challenging, the same fight 500 times isn't challenging it's tedious.

As for working for drops sure that's fine but can we have visible progress with each run please, not just hoping pigs suddenly grow wings and fly when we check the chest?

[Teia]

You can't dumb down what's already retarded. How can you claim repeating the same fight 500 times is challenging. I can do Ifrit on god damn autopilot by now. Again, a challenging fight is challenging, the same fight 500 times isn't challenging it's tedious.

As for working for drops sure that's fine but can we have visible progress with each run please, not just hoping pigs suddenly grow wings and fly when we check the chest?

Also all the knowledge in the world of statistics and probability does not change one's reaction to having done something 100+ times and then seeing someone get the drop on their first try. That's not "fun" by any stretch. It's demoralizing.

Besides, we're also talking about things with no inherent difficulty. For Ifrit, you learn his pattern and then it becomes a simple case of go in, nuke him/heal people/tank him, dodge cracks, kill nails, Sentinel/Sanguine, dodge cracks, check chest, repeat ad nauseam. The only inherent difficulty is in memorizing his patterns. All told you're looking at about a ~10-15 minute fight you can do without even paying attention, all for a low chance of getting an item, and the effort:reward ratio is even worse for Moogle, DH, AV, and CC, despite none of those being all that hard (compare the dungeons to FFXI's Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, etc to see what I mean). SE's just drawing out content pointlessly for the sake of drawing it out rather than making things interesting or challenging.

Honestly, I think Toto-rak is the best thing they've added, from a design perspective. And when your best content is a forgettable level 25 dungeon, you're doing something wrong.

[elreed]

You can't dumb down what's already retarded. How can you claim repeating the same fight 500 times is challenging. I can do Ifrit on god damn autopilot by now. Again, a challenging fight is challenging, the same fight 500 times isn't challenging it's tedious.

As for working for drops sure that's fine but can we have visible progress with each run please, not just hoping pigs suddenly grow wings and fly when we check the chest?

So you want the WoW way? now we have totems or nuts to get a weapon, so you say that just to do it you deserve having all in 1 time? im not saying that i agree that we cant have our drops sooner with a simple and already easy to do fight, hell i would love to have the greed/need system, we would have the drops already if at least we had the loot list give option, but i wont agree with dumbing down drop rates, in games like WoW (i played it for 2 to 3 years) right after a patch is released you only needed to wait 2 weeks to have everything, theres no achievement there, right now if i see a guy/gal with darklight gear i know what theyve done, it feels great having a piece not easily obtained.

When you talk about MMOs you have to talk about time sinks, no dumb ones but some that require time and skill, Sky was even an achievement by itself (i really hope they change the areas of primals more like an unlockable area) you had to do lots of stuff before getting there, then you had to farm items in order to get the NM pop, and then after all that you had to kill it and then if you were lucky you could get a bad ass item, if not you had to do it all over again, and those NMs had several items to get your gear, so there was lot of luck on that, yeah it sucks for some but the content itself was interesting and took time and skill to achieve what you wanted.

If i wanted a game that i can finish in one week or weekend i wouldnt be playing an MMORPG i would be playing an offline RPG, im the type of guy that prefers difficulty over drop rate but in this case i dont think 250 fights is too much im not saying that in those 250 wins there wasnt any drop, there were a lot of drops weapons and totems but not for me, ive played with a lot of people sometimes we wiped sometimes ppl that joined and were doing that fight for second time they had luck and got a weapon that i was looking for. At the end is luck 2 weeks ago we won for the first time Cutters Cry and i got Darklight Caligae some people havent seen any of those drops and done it more times than me....

[Wevlum]

So you want the WoW way? now we have totems or nuts to get a weapon, so you say that just to do it you deserve having all in 1 time? im not saying that i agree that we cant have our drops sooner with a simple and already easy to do fight, hell i would love to have the greed/need system, we would have the drops already if at least we had the loot list give option, but i wont agree with dumbing down drop rates, in games like WoW (i played it for 2 to 3 years) right after a patch is released you only needed to wait 2 weeks to have everything, theres no achievement there, right now if i see a guy/gal with darklight gear i know what theyve done, it feels great having a piece not easily obtained.

When you talk about MMOs you have to talk about time sinks, no dumb ones but some that require time and skill, Sky was even an achievement by itself (i really hope they change the areas of primals more like an unlockable area) you had to do lots of stuff before getting there, then you had to farm items in order to get the NM pop, and then after all that you had to kill it and then if you were lucky you could get a bad ass item, if not you had to do it all over again, and those NMs had several items to get your gear, so there was lot of luck on that, yeah it sucks for some but the content itself was interesting and took time and skill to achieve what you wanted.

If i wanted a game that i can finish in one week or weekend i wouldnt be playing an MMORPG i would be playing an offline RPG, im the type of guy that prefers difficulty over drop rate but in this case i dont think 250 fights is too much im not saying that in those 250 wins there wasnt any drop, there were a lot of drops weapons and totems but not for me, ive played with a lot of people sometimes we wiped sometimes ppl that joined and were doing that fight for second time they had luck and got a weapon that i was looking for. At the end is luck 2 weeks ago we won for the first time Cutters Cry and i got Darklight Caligae some people havent seen any of those drops and done it more times than me....

What is this...I don't even. 1) I've never played WoW 2) I never said get weapons first time every time. I'd sooner see 100% token drop rate and it takes 50 tokens to get a weapon than the current system (although like I've said earlier I prefer a staggered system with an exchange system in place to encourage people to do the fight once they're 7/7.

Random-ish numbers to demonstrate the stagger thing I'm mentioning; First weapon costs 20, second costs 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50. People can get the weapon they need sooner without infuriating pure luck based systems and people who want 7/7 have to "work for it" as people put it. Totems would be 100% every fight, 1 totem each and unpassable. We could then have an exchange system where people can exchange their tokens for seals or something if they're already 7/7. The weapons aren't handed out like free candy, we don't have to deal with stupid pure luck, and you get to have a time sink for people who want 7/7. What is the problem here?

Also you're suggesting beating Ifrit hundreds of times takes skill. It takes a degree of skill to learn the fight, after that it's purely just a time sink in place to artificially extend the shelf-life of content. As stated that's fair enough for a MMO to a degree, just don't pretend it's skill please that's just insulting.

Finally not everyone has 5 hours a day to grind this...why the animosity to those people? The types of people who don't have the time to do that prolly only have 1 or 2 jobs they care about, why shouldn't they be able to work towards that in a feasible amount of time? Staggered costs like I said (using 20 as an example for first weapon cost) means these people can get the weapon for their preferred job in 10 days if they run twice a day. Is that really an unreasonable time scale? 7/7 would still be an achievement, it would mean you ran Ifrit 20+25+30+35+40+45+50 times.

Basically at what point does working for something become a complete and utter chore that no one can honestly enjoy?

[elreed]

What is this...I don't even. 1) I've never played WoW 2) I never said get weapons first time every time. I'd sooner see 100% token drop rate and it takes 50 tokens to get a weapon than the current system (although like I've said earlier I prefer a staggered system with an exchange system in place to encourage people to do the fight once they're 7/7.

Random-ish numbers to demonstrate the stagger thing I'm mentioning; First weapon costs 20, second costs 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50. People can get the weapon they need sooner without infuriating pure luck based systems and people who want 7/7 have to "work for it" as people put it. Totems would be 100% every fight, 1 totem each and unpassable. We could then have an exchange system where people can exchange their tokens for seals or something if they're already 7/7. The weapons aren't handed out like free candy, we don't have to deal with stupid pure luck, and you get to have a time sink for people who want 7/7. What is the problem here?

Also you're suggesting beating Ifrit hundreds of times takes skill. It takes a degree of skill to learn the fight, after that it's purely just a time sink in place to artificially extend the shelf-life of content. As stated that's fair enough for a MMO to a degree, just don't pretend it's skill please that's just insulting.

Finally not everyone has 5 hours a day to grind this...why the animosity to those people? The types of people who don't have the time to do that prolly only have 1 or 2 jobs they care about, why shouldn't they be able to work towards that in a feasible amount of time? Staggered costs like I said (using 20 as an example for first weapon cost) means these people can get the weapon for their preferred job in 10 days if they run twice a day. Is that really an unreasonable time scale? 7/7 would still be an achievement, it would mean you ran Ifrit 20+25+30+35+40+45+50 times.

Basically at what point does working for something become a complete and utter chore that no one can honestly enjoy?

You dont read much do you? you missed my point, but well ill bare with that, in short no i dont agree making higher drop rate,

yes i do agree that changing loot system in those fights would solve everything, like just giving us the same option we have in dungeons that we can give our drops to others in the party before exiting,

no i dont want a system that you can easily burn, the thing that you propose is not bad at all, but in WoW ill say it again they made a system where you could exchange emblems for gear, those emblems were obtained by killing one dungeon boss, so at the end getting the equipment was just a matter of time over skill, especially with the autoparty search system, you could burn dungeons and get those gear easily and at the end you didnt feel something special, like right now ask someone what does it feel getting a Darklight piece, and its a piece not many people will have for a time, like the guy who got the darklight heavy armor, maybe he'll be the only one for 3 weeks or for a month who knows, so many more will try to get what he has.

[Jinko]

You dont read much do you? you missed my point, but well ill bare with that, in short no i dont agree making higher drop rate,

yes i do agree that changing loot system in those fights would solve everything, like just giving us the same option we have in dungeons that we can give our drops to others in the party before exiting,

You do realise that by pasing weapons in a Primal fight it would mean people could get 7/7 long before they collected 70-140 tokens. (assuming they dropped 100% for every kill and were non-tradeable)

As the person you responded to said, some people don't care for X weapon because they don't have X job/class levelled, so in this case they would just pass to the person who wanted it.

no i dont want a system that you can easily burn, the thing that you propose is not bad at all, but in WoW ill say it again they made a system where you could exchange emblems for gear, those emblems were obtained by killing one dungeon boss, so at the end getting the equipment was just a matter of time over skill, especially with the autoparty search system, you could burn dungeons and get those gear easily and at the end you didnt feel something special, like right now ask someone what does it feel getting a Darklight piece, and its a piece not many people will have for a time, like the guy who got the darklight heavy armor, maybe he'll be the only one for 3 weeks or for a month who knows, so many more will try to get what he has.

Again as the person you quoted said there is a big difference between skill and a time sink.

If you are pretending this games boss encounters are harder than WoW's you need to go and play WoW again.. assuming you ever have of course.

I played WoW for 4-5 years and it definitely felt good to get the item you wanted, obviously I'm not talking about dungeon content, I mean the raid content.

Most people play wow, do a few dungeons and think they know it all, try some of the hard mode stuff and see how far you get.