So after waiting for about 2 weeks to see the consequence of homogenization

[MaelleRiou]

What got homogenized was gameplay. It has nothing to do with damage output. Please don't put oranges and apples all together.

But bard gameplay barely changed at all. A 2% crit bonus that just happens from doing your rotation being removed doesn't change gameplay. Bards still play the same songs during their rotation, all that's gone is a passive buff to others they applied.

[Kabooa]

But bard gameplay barely changed at all. A 2% crit bonus that just happens from doing your rotation being removed doesn't change gameplay. Bards still play the same songs during their rotation, all that's gone is a passive buff to others they applied.

And Foe Req. That thing you push at the start and then every time Refresh is up.

Gaemplay

[Miziliti]

And Foe Req. That thing you push at the start and then every time Refresh is up.

Gaemplay

But bard gameplay barely changed at all. A 2% crit bonus that just happens from doing your rotation being removed doesn't change gameplay. Bards still play the same songs during their rotation, all that's gone is a passive buff to others they applied.

Oh yea BRD didn't get effected much by homogenization like I said that DPS roles received least damages by homogenization.

Thanks for telling the world BRD is boring. I guess.

[kajv95]

Chiming in on the BRD conversation, there were some pretty important changes made to BRD that overall changed a lot of the more interesting aspects of BRD. Potency values, removal of crit reliance, straight shot and empyreal arrow changes all make BRD have a much lower skill ceiling than it used to. Yes, on face value it doesn't look like much was changed, yes the things you noted were some of the duller aspects of the job. But it's not the only thing that was changed, and any self-respecting SB BRD main can tell you that. If you don't understand what was changed overall, please don't make comments about how simple a job is. That'd be like me saying Summoner is better/worse for its changes. I don't play Summoner, so I can literally only comment on what they bring to a party and what their overall DPS is like.

[CrashofZenki]

Ok, so much wrong info here.

Reason why people are going in the direction of "wanting" homogenization between the DPS is literally because of the fact that we get the "Meta" crap.

Its because some people seem to not understand that having large gaps between DPS from Personal powerhouse to utility rich DPS makes people choose powerhouses over utility because they need to to battle enrage.

If there is no reward in bringing Utility jobs at all except for the fact that no personal powerhouse DPS joins the PF the first 30 minutes then that by itself calls for homogenization as one way of eliminating the Personal DPS vs Utility DPS constant battle for spots.

One patch will be Utility meta, other patch its Personal DPS Meta.. It will never end unless the community opens up for playing with every class.
Of course people will say; "Yeah but it will be meta if...." Im so tired of this meta bullshit. There should be no such thing as meta at all. and thats why people are starting to advocate homogenization, because of the player base going for meta just because they saw ONE group use that comp and now suddenly everyone needs that comp to complete the task.. even though normally it never was like that.

But now it actually IS a real meta for the first time. The gap has never been more visible to the point where ACTUAL exclusion is happening.

I cant comment for everyone, but I believe most of us dont want every DPS to have the same attacks, but with different animations. But its beeing forced oppon us to ask for it BECAUSE we want to be able to play too, even if we love to play only RDM.. or NIN.. or w/e comes short that patch.

I actually want classes to be unique, I want some of the classes harder to play than others.

But what I do not want, is to have to sacrifice some jobs being left out certain content for that to happen.

Ninja tbf in abilities and all is fine, I even think Ten-Chi-Jin should stay the way it is. There IS a permanent fix for mudra lag, but oh forbid them to make it client side, because then people can hack it.. Sure they can, but there is a thing called permaban too, so dont give me that bull.
Ninja needs potency buffs yes. But most DPS lack could be done with simply giving us the Bunshin that was teased to us for the 5.0 teaser. And dripping blades given back to us. Nothing else needs to be done.

[CrashofZenki]

BUT! Since people is crying that oh no.. NIN will be permanent if that happens, or oh no if NIN gets a chance at beating BLM even if its a 00000000.1% Chance in a perfect run with perfect team mates.. Nah.. TA is too valuable.

But if you actually do some digging you will see that TA was never OP at all. NIN rDPS would in 99.9% of the time never beat the highest DPS class in the past. Its the IDEA that people get when seeing one group do well that that spesific job is a must have, even when it was not. Some comps obviously was easier to clear with, but that was more in terms with lack of synergy in group, and personal skill difference in the players.

But since TA always got broight up when we cried out for balance between the DPS classes it was always shut down. And that is the REAL reason some Ninja mains have come to the point where we dont want TA if it means we have to be nerfed so hard that our efforts, our time, and our passion of the class fades away because of one simple utility.

Oh and lets not forget we lost all the other utilities, we have ONE. MNK has TWO and is now the highest in most cases... Is that fair?

I dont think people are asking for utility classes, or.. NIN or what ever to be OP.. we want BALANCE.

And if the only way to get balance is to make every class have utility, or not have utility... Then if thats what it takes then bring it! Because this is killing the enjoyment of the game.

[CrashofZenki]

And I bet the BLMs and SAMs would quickly change their tones about rDPS if they were suddenly given damage utility, and MNK and NIN was stripped of their Utilities and raised to the place BLM is now.
In this scenario the big advocators of BLM and SAM would say.. "We have Utility, its natural that we should have the most rDPS"

Because this is literally how it does sound.

Just let that sink in for a moment. Then comment.

[MaelleRiou]

Its because some people seem to not understand that having large gaps between DPS from Personal powerhouse to utility rich DPS makes people choose powerhouses over utility because they need to to battle enrage.

The enrage really is the biggest problem. Summoner and Red Mage utility from Raise is generally entirely wasted because if you're having enough deaths to warrant bringing a DPS for Raise then your group probably isn't beating the enrage timer anyway. They're basically the training wheels that are there until the group learns the mechanics enough to expect no one to die and then they're better off swapping to black mage.

And what's worse is this affects the average players more than the top end ones. Average players(especially those that PUG) will have a harder time beating the enrage timer so getting any extra DPS they can from specific jobs is important while top tier raiders can get away with using any class.

[Mahrze]

Oh, 12 original edition has the problem of homogenization (Every characters share skills/stats grid from the get go) and later on oversimplification with gambits. This is fixed in Zodiac edition, that's why Zodiac edition is a far better version of FF12.

As for 13, it's not homogenization as each job is unique. The problem is a complete lack of skill depth and ultra linearity. Even the path way is linear, walk straight direction 70% of the time in main story and no sense of exploration and discovery.

I mean, it comes with the territory when every character has access to every ability and the only difference is their limit breaks. 7 and 8 commit the same crime but I digress.

[Kabooa]

And I bet the BLMs and SAMs would quickly change their tones about rDPS if they were suddenly given damage utility, and MNK and NIN was stripped of their Utilities and raised to the place BLM is now.
In this scenario the big advocators of BLM and SAM would say.. "We have Utility, its natural that we should have the most rDPS"

Because this is literally how it does sound.

Just let that sink in for a moment. Then comment.

No.

We'd say "We have utility, and Monk doesn't, so this makes sense now."