Warrior and Dark Knight's Predicament

[RavenFall_]

If we place all four tanks side by side, we can see there's quite the disparity between them. According to fflogs, in terms of dps it usually goes GNB > PLD > DRK/WAR. Now for party utility, it goes PLD > GNB > DRK/WAR. Dark Knight and Warrior get outdone by Paladin and Gunbreaker in every way. They have the least dps and the least utility. DRK and WAR's dps does not justify their lack of utility. The two need a reasonable buff, be it potency or whatever helps them make up for what they lack.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I wouldn't say GNB has more party utility than DRK. If anything, I might say it's the opposite.

[Shurrikhan]

GNB has aurora, heart of stone and heart of light, while DRK only has The Blackest Night(3k MP) and Dark Missionary. It's three to two, and TBN costs resources.

I give you GNB cards. I give DRK two. One card given to each of us is exactly the same. (HoL and DM are identical save in icon, name, and animation, just as Rampart and Shadowskin were before. Curious, that.)

GNB gets a 2, a 3, and a 4. DRK get a 9 and that 4.

Which of them has the "bigger" hand?

And, no, TBN does not cost resources unless used at entirely the wrong time. If it provides its full value, it refunds its cost.

For HoS, a 25-second cooldown, to absorb as much as TBN, a 15-second cooldown, the HoS target must take damage that would be equal to 167% of their HP. In other words, they must die.

If the tankbuster and following auto-attack would have dealt 25% of the co-tanks HP, HoS saves the co-tank 3.75% HP, less than the standard deviation of damage. In short, it would be impossible for even a parser to notice unless tracking buffs present at the time of the hit. A TBN will instead save the co-tank 25% HP.

If 50%, the HoS will finally save the co-tank 7.5% HP. TBN will again save 25%. If the tank otherwise would have died (100% HP of damage) over the duration, the HoS will finally save 15%. TBN will still save more at 25%. Only at the tank having been overkilled by two-thirds of its HP can a HoS match a TBN.

Aurora's 1200 potency of healing amounts to, what, at most 15% of a tank's HP? A DRK would do that, on average, every 9 seconds.

Still think GNB's hand (Aurora and HoS) is better than DRK's (TBN)?

[Lyth]

...

Again, cryptic gibberish aside, you can't really compare apples and oranges.

Aurora is a good fit for GNB because of Superbolide. Activate Aurora and SB, and watch your HP tick up while you take no damage. Equilibrium is generally the more useful of the two, but that's another story (and another job altogether). HoS is weaker than TBN in the hands of a good player, but HoS is also a lot more flexible. It's more flexible than Intervention and TBN. It's more powerful than NF. So it all comes out in the wash.

By the way, if you want to express your rebuttal to a point, at least have the consideration to create a new post instead of editing your old one. Not all of us want to double post just to respond.

[Jandor]

Again, cryptic gibberish aside, you can't really compare apples and oranges.

%DR and shields are apples and oranges now?

[Shurrikhan]

By the way, if you want to express your rebuttal to a point, at least have the consideration to create a new post instead of editing your old one. Not all of us want to double post just to respond.

My final edit was completed within 3 minutes of the original post, having merely added on the component about Aurora to the absorption/restoration over time comparisons, and has nothing to do with you. Glad to know that simple multiplication is still "cryptic gibberish" so long as it points out any area a DRK may outperform another job, though?

Again, cryptic gibberish aside, you can't really compare apples and oranges.

I compared only HoS and TBN and Aurora and TBN.

In the first case, both increase eHP. They are near identical concepts. One need only work within the typical ranges of damage to be taken over any given 7-second window including or 15/25 seconds away from a tankbuster that would require the added mitigation of HoS/TBN.

In the second, there's nothing healing can do that shields cannot, so I merely took the best case scenario for Aurora (no added eHP needed, only restoration) and compared it against TBN. Even in such a case Aurora regenerates per 90 seconds less than any given TBN saves. For the combination Aurora and HoS and TBN alone to then be even -- or, "a wash" -- TBN could only provide about an Aurora's worth more absorption than HoS over time, and even then TBN would have the lead in that Aurora does not provide added maximum eHP. But that's simply not the case. TBN will on average provide at least three times the mitigation of HoS over time. It's far from "a wash" -- DRK has a clear lead.

[Arale]

GNB has aurora, heart of stone and heart of light, while DRK only has The Blackest Night(3k MP) and Dark Missionary. It's three to two, and TBN costs resources.

TBK can be cast on other tanks, and doesn't cost resources if you use it wisely. GNB is a squishy tank compared to DRK in my opinion but side by side, DRK can make up for that by casting TBK on the GNB and giving it the protection it needs. People have already done the math for this. TBK dumpsters Heart of Stone outright. Add in Rampart and it's even worse.

I can't speak on Warrior though.

[xJimmehx]

I do feel that the tanks need a little bit more balancing. I would be happy if war received a tiny potency buff and the removal of the requirement to have a target on Nascent Flash. I also would like to see drk received a slight potency buff as well. Paladin and gnb feel great right now. Im actually leaning heavily towards putting away my axe and swapping to paladin just so i can be the "Jack of all trades, Master of all" XD War does have one thing on PLD and GNB, Self healing comparisons on certain "sites" seem to point out that wars are gaining more self heals per duty.

Another thing that would be nice is the separation of Nascent Flash from Raw Intuition. I know I'm starting to sound greedy, but when I played paladin I just feel like I can use cooldowns for days, heal almost nonstop, do huge dps, and block damage for others, raid wide barriers, etc. PLD is god mode. I actually think I prefer pld over gnb even though gnb has the best dps..because pld has so much to bring to the table and still has comparable dps.

And yes, I know they're all very close in numbers. I just feel like it could be better.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

GNB has more party utility abilities than DRK, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has greater party utility; you have to consider how powerful each ability is.

Case in point, TBN is often far more powerful than HoS--so much so that I would say Aurora doesn't make up for it.