Why does this game hide essential character info?

[Fhaerron]

they're deliberately not going to explain in detail what the mathematics do under the hood as that sort of information players would then use to exploit the game deliberately. And even keeping it secret has not stopped players already doing just that.

So the fact that I know that I have to meld Direct Hit on my PLD to get the most DPS out of my gear is an exploit?

How?

[Nora_of_Mira]

So the fact that I know that I have to meld Direct Hit on my PLD to get the most DPS out of my gear is an exploit?

How?

on the flip side of the argument, they could be hiding exactly how useless Tenacity is and hiding it is the only reason it's not 100% ignored.

but in reality, its more so that stats as such as Tenacity/Determination affect different values whereas Crit/DHit are pretty straightforward in what they increase. Players are always smarter than the devs anticipate, so I can only assume they're hiding lacklusterness of these substats.

It's generally because the numbers don't actually do anything anyway. they get higher as you level sure but they don't actually do anything..

a level 50 blm with 350 spell speed has pretty much the exact same cast time as a level 60 with 800 or a level 70 with 1100 or a level 80 with whatever a level 80 blm has.

it's been the same forever even things like crit. the number keeps on going up and up and up but the crit rates essentially stay the same....

this is...very not true.

[Dzian]

this is...very not true.

Are you sure? GCDs for example aren't really any faster now even when players have skill/spell speeds in the thousands than they were way back in ARR.

You can go look at logs of like gordias savage for example and compare average crit rates from jobs to what the average crit rates were for midas, creator, delta, sigma, etc etc... and see they really don't change that much at all despite the stats getting higher and higher with every tier of gear..

Speed is the same thing. Why is it that if you get synced down to say 50 and lose over 1000 points of spell speed your flare cast or your fire 3 cast isn't really any slower?
Because the stat makes no real difference at all. It just keeps getting higher and higher and doesn't really do anything.

This is why they can't make stats transparent, because they have no consistent value or effect. If you make a comparison to FFXI as an earlier posted said it was exactly the same there. In as much that stats effects were hidden yes they were.
However the effects in FFXI were measurable and consistent. You could easily work out that the 15 dex stat on Byakkos Haidate would result in a 3.75% increase to your ninjas hit rate because stat effects were consistent 1 accuracy would always result in a 0.5% boost to your hit rate. 2 dex would always equate to 1 accuracy for a 1 handed weapon user. the same was true with pretty much every stat. although hidden the effects were measurable with a high degree of precision.

It just doesn't work in 14 because the stats don't have a consistent value. A few jobs have demonstrated it quite well over the course of the game since ARR.. Where magic numbers for skill or spell speed would allow you to squeeze that extra heavy shot into something like a raging strikes window. But then suddenly you can't do that anymore because now you don't have enough speed.... So you need to pile on even more speed stats just to do what you used to be able to do with less points in that same stat...

[Nora_of_Mira]

It just doesnt work in 14 because the stats dont have a consistant value. a few jobs have demonstrated it quite well over the course of the game since ARR.. where magicnumbers for skill or spell speed allow you to squeeze that extra heavy shot into something like a raging strikes window. but then suddenly you cant do that becasue now you dont have enough speed.... so you need to pile on even more speed just to do what you used to be able to do with less points in that stat...

in regards to the raw stat values from the past and now, yes that is correct. But the actual effect gained by the stats isnt computed by just raw addition (having twice as much Skill speed doesnt make 2x as fast etc) Like someone said before, our character level has to be in the equation somewhere that causes this "slower feeling" power gain.

The main thing i was taking from your post is skill/spell speed make no difference but DRG BiS currently has 3 skill speed tiers to choose from. IMO, it kind of has to be this way since we cant just level over expansions and somehow reach a 1.5 GCD.

however, if people expected that from HW to ShB we would be reaching ridiculously low GCD and super high crit rates, thats unfortunate. I cant see SE balancing it that way and we'll never be able to know how they change the potencies of stats from expansion to expansion, sadly.

Technically yes, But because Direct Hit only affects your chance to DH, while crit not only increases your chance to Critical but also increases the damage when you do crit, there is a point where the double dipping of crit becomes stronger than the DH increase point for point and becomes priority meld stat #1.(The above also doesn't apply to WAR, who wants det/CRT more than DH since all of their burst is guaranteed DH anyway)

At the beginning of Stormblood, it was the same. DH was king for tanks since they naturally couldn't get any, but midway through Sigmascape to the end of Alpha CRT became stronger point for point than DH. Some people have mathed it out to happen somewhere in the 3500 point range of crit, and several BiS builds for tanks are already melding crit to reach that point. The best simulated PLD builds for example are ditching several DH melds for CRT ones.

thanks, im not able to keep up with all the different tank melds atm as I'm still only gearing up DRG.

[Dzian]

however, if people expected that from HW to ShB we would be reaching ridiculously low GCD and super high crit rates, thats unfortunate. I cant see SE balancing it that way and we'll never be able to know how they change the potencies of stats from expansion to expansion, sadly.

I don't think its anyhting extreme like that.
I just think its easy to see why people think stats are boring and meaningless when you never actually gain anything from them because they're always adjusting potencies.

I also think its down to design. FFXI worked around a hidden stat many referred to as DLVL which scaled your stats according to a basic level difference between you and whatever you were fighting. and that always meant that you felt stat differences.

I sometimes think XIV would be better with something similar.. At least then if a level 80 player went and did Ifrit Ex unsynced he might actually see a difference in his crit rates by seeing them skyrocket, but when you unsync to 80 and your crit rates against a level 50 mob are the exact same they are against a level 80 then what does that stat actually do for you???

Or even just have some variance in monster stats. Mobs that are super slow but super heavy armored, mobs that are soft and squishy but evasive as hell... there's a lot they could do to cater for ever increasing stats without constantly changing the potencies and removing any gains..

Where as now I can step out of Ul'dah throw a shield at a level 1 bug and hit it for almost the exact same damage as I would throwing that shield at a level 80 boss.. It's kinda weird to think that boss has the the exact same defense as a level 80 bug... the only difference between them is the boss has way more hp..

[RoyalBeef]

I dont think its anyhting like that. i just think its easy to see why people think stats are boring and meaningless when you never gain anything from them because they're always adjusting potencies.

I also think its down to design. FFXI worked around a hidden stat many referreed to as DLVL which scaled your stats according to a basic level difference between you and whatever you were fighting. and that always meant that you felt stat differences.

I sometimes think XIV would be better with something similar.. at least then if a level 80 player went and did ifrit ex unsynced he might actually see a difference in his crit rates by seeing them skyrocket but when you unsync to 80 and your crit rates against a level 50 mob are the exact same they are against a level 80 then what does that stat actually do for you.....

or even just have some varience in monster stats. mobs that are super slow but super heavy armoured mobs that are soft and squishy but evasive as hell... there's a lot they could do to catar for increasing stats without constantly changing the potencies and removing any gains.. where as now i can step out of uldah throw a shield at a level 1 bug and hit it for almost the exact same damage as a level 80 boss.. it's kinda weird to think that boss has the same defence as a level 80 bug... the only difference between them is the boss has more hp..

Also curious if our defense makes any real difference. Was running some low level dungeon unsync the other day to get WT done, and I swear trash mobs were hitting me for 25dmg or so, as far as I remember that should be pretty similar to the damage they did when I was level 20 with 300 hp or so lol.

[Dzian]

Also curious if our defense makes any real difference. Was running some low level dungeon unsync the other day to get WT done, and I swear trash mobs were hitting me for 25dmg or so, as far as I remember that should be pretty similar to the damage they did when I was level 20 with 300 hp or so lol.

nope just feels like it does because you have bucket loads of hp

[Nora_of_Mira]

I also think its down to design. FFXI worked around a hidden stat many referreed to as DLVL which scaled your stats according to a basic level difference between you and whatever you were fighting. and that always meant that you felt stat differences.

I sometimes think XIV would be better with something similar.. at least then if a level 80 player went and did ifrit ex unsynced he might actually see a difference in his crit rates by seeing them skyrocket but when you unsync to 80 and your crit rates against a level 50 mob are the exact same they are against a level 80 then what does that stat actually do for you.....

perhaps its just a difference of preference bc I didn't play FFXI and the current way stats "grow" doesnt bother me. To add context to this, I rarely, if ever, bother with any content in FFxiv that's outside the current expansion, so w/e numbers (damage, hp,crit rate, etc) I see doing old content is not something I'm really worried about or feel anything towards.

As long as I feel stronger from 5.0 to 5.x, I'm perfectly happy. And this raid tier particularly, the stat differences are making pretty significant differences in damage.

[Dzian]

As long as I feel stronger from 5.0 to 5.x, I'm perfectly happy. And this raid tier particularly, the stat differences are making pretty significant differences in damage.

there's no denying you get stronger, but SE could quite easily trash every single stat except ILvl and nothing would really change that much. you'd still feel stronger every patch...

but when your endlessly piling hundreds of points into crit and still having the exact same crit rate you were 2-3 years ago. it's no wonder so many people feel stats are worthless and boring. just equip the highest item level and ignore everything else.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

So the fact that I know that I have to meld Direct Hit on my PLD to get the most DPS out of my gear is an exploit?

How?

I thought there was a point where crit overtakes direct hit for tanks in general for dps gains. Is that not the case?