Can SCH get its bugs fixed?

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Convincing the devs to give back something they took away is not progress. Especially when they they only give back some of what they took, which people want, and then take it away again in the next expansion.

And I find it hard to believe that a bug like fairy abilities taking ages to go off "slipped through". It's blatantly obvious if you play the class in any content. I think it's more likely that they knew it was happening but decided to let it happen because they didn't have time to fix it and they wanted to shift the fairy heals onto the gcd (another unpopular change). And I can kinda understand that. That's the sort ignorance change you wouldn't want to make in a patch. And I can also understand if they have other things on their plate that take higher priority, but as has been said before, some communication would be nice. A "we know there's this issue and we plan to fix it just we don't have time right now" would improve things a lot.

Telling them the Job is worse without said skill and getting it back IS indeed progress to fixing and making a Job fun to play again.
I hope your counter-argument isn't "Well it will just get taken away again"

Personally, Id rather Advocate to give me control of the Fairy back. Back in SB I liked Using both my skills and the Fairy skills at the same time. Because IMO even back then the Fairy was slow. So this sounds less like a Bug, and more like they need to improve the AI. Partner AI healers can be just as bad.
How do we fix this, or even get it improved? By, SAYING something. And then we have to wait.
And lets be honest...even IF they communicated that outright, we'd still be in the same situation. They were honest that they have some limitations that stop them from doing something, and boom, people are complaining "Oh SE and the Devs dont care about us"

[Billythepancake]

Telling them the Job is worse without said skill and getting it back IS indeed progress to fixing and making a Job fun to play again.
I hope your counter-argument isn't "Well it will just get taken away again"

Personally, Id rather Advocate to give me control of the Fairy back. Back in SB I liked Using both my skills and the Fairy skills at the same time. Because IMO even back then the Fairy was slow. So this sounds less like a Bug, and more like they need to improve the AI. Partner AI healers can be just as bad.
How do we fix this, or even get it improved? By, SAYING something. And then we have to wait.
And lets be honest...even IF they communicated that outright, we'd still be in the same situation. They were honest that they have some limitations that stop them from doing something, and boom, people are complaining "Oh SE and the Devs dont care about us"

I never had an issue with fairy at the end of stormblood, imo, she was perfection at the end of stormblood. Shouldn't have touched either fairy. If i told her to use both abilities she used them back to back, at worst I had to wait for embrace to finish, other than that though, never once had a responsiveness issue. Now I've had times where she legit just eats the ability, puts it on CD, and nothing happens. That's a pretty major problem.

And I'd prefer some communication over none. They hand waved us away, even BRD, whose complaints were minor compared to other dps, was told SOMETHING. All we got was "tool tip changes are coming, and AST can kiss our butts we know you're unhappy but deal with it" ._. At least something to tell us that they were listening to feedback would at least tell me my words arent falling on deaf ears.

Honestly, I'm convinced they didnt even play test healers, after the state they came out in, I cannot believe they were play tested and approved. I honestly think SE just doesn't believe we're worth the resources, so every fix we get is the laziest and easiest fix. Cant balance 2 unique fairies? Make them the same fairy. Cant make all 3 healers unique and equally useful? strip them of their uniqueness. All hardcore raiders care about is balance? Completely gut AST of any other card. Nothing they did had any thoughts or love put into it, but when I look at MCH, and I see what they did to it, how they listened and made that class feel so much better, all the love and attention they put into it, it frustrates me, because we're not worth that same love and attention. We're the drama club, and the DPS are the varsity football team in a football town. Of course I'm still doing what I can to try and make my voice heard, but I dont think the forums are a big enough audience. Not while people like momo have the spotlight entirely on him. Doesnt matter what I think about SCH, if momo says it's fine, then it's fine. Same for any other role and whatever their respective big youtuber is.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

That was not fixed at all for all of two years. They made some changes to it but the entire mechanic was useless. It was basically pointless to even have you lilies in your HUD, for the entire expansion. Generating lilies with spells you willingly avoid was a disaster from the start. Shortening the cooldowns for skills you would time for specific moments went completely to waste as well. It was simply broken for 2 years.

You say that...yet I had Zero issues. Once they adjusted the Lilies to sprout after a Cure 1 and 2, everything was fine.
Maybe Im just to casual and all of this is from people who do Endgame, because the Lily system was just fine. Of course its 1000x better now, but after the mentioned adjustment, it was nothing bad in SB

Honestly, I'm convinced they didnt even play test healers, after the state they came out in, I cannot believe they were play tested and approved. I honestly think SE just doesn't believe we're worth the resources, so every fix we get is the laziest and easiest fix. Cant balance 2 unique fairies? Make them the same fairy. Cant make all 3 healers unique and equally useful? strip them of their uniqueness. All hardcore raiders care about is balance? Completely gut AST of any other card. Nothing they did had any thoughts or love put into it, but when I look at MCH, and I see what they did to it, how they listened and made that class feel so much better, all the love and attention they put into it, it frustrates me, because we're not worth that same love and attention. We're the drama club, and the DPS are the varsity football team in a football town. Of course I'm still doing what I can to try and make my voice heard, but I dont think the forums are a big enough audience. Not while people like momo have the spotlight entirely on him. Doesnt matter what I think about SCH, if momo says it's fine, then it's fine. Same for any other role and whatever their respective big youtuber is.

Remember, it took Machinist 2 Expansions to become the awesome that it is now. Paladin and White are even improved compared to how they used to be.... Once again....it took time.
Honestly with the Faeries, it is better if there was just 1, what was actually the point of having 2? Im not a Scholar main so feel free to rant and lecture me on how having 2 faries gutted into glamour hurts the job. (I mean that, not being hyperbolic)

[Billythepancake]

You say that...yet I had Zero issues. Once they adjusted the Lilies to sprout after a Cure 1 and 2, everything was fine.
Maybe Im just to casual and all of this is from people who do Endgame, because the Lily system was just fine. Of course its 1000x better now, but after the mentioned adjustment, it was nothing bad in SB




Remember, it took Machinist 2 Expansions to become the awesome that it is now. Paladin and White are even improved compared to how they used to be.... Once again....it took time.
Honestly with the Faeries, it is better if there was just 1, what was actually the point of having 2? Im not a Scholar main so feel free to rant and lecture me on how having 2 faries gutted into glamour hurts the job. (I mean that, not being hyperbolic)

It's just nice to have options, that's my biggest complaint. I dont have a choice anymore, there isnt a different fairy for different occasions. I was doing maps the other day, 3 people had poison, and 1 person had a slow, and I thought to myself "man, that aoe esuna Selene used to have would be great right now" in raids, eos was clearly the better fairy, but there were plenty of situations outside of that where Selene was just as useful. I'd have honestly preferred them just to have made Selene better for all content, give me some real options. Something like, give selene an aoe damage move (small potency of course) and a small insta heal (basically a team wide embrace) so she could've actively competed with EOS, so I'd have a real choice on being offensive or defensive, which they already fit, they just needed to expand on that more. It's also unfair that SMN gets to keep 3 unique summons with different abilities with different effects, but ours is taken away from us. SMN lost nothing from ACN, but we lost everything it's so frustrating. We only got to keep the rez.

They've had 6 years to get healers down, and this is what they came up with, I dont want to wait 6 more years for them to maybe fix healers.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It's just nice to have options, that's my biggest complaint. I dont have a choice anymore, there isnt a different fairy for different occasions. I was doing maps the other day, 3 people had poison, and 1 person had a slow, and I thought to myself "man, that aoe esuna Selene used to have would be great right now" in raids, eos was clearly the better fairy, but there were plenty of situations outside of that where Selene was just as useful. I'd have honestly preferred them just to have made Selene better for all content, give me some real options. Something like, give selene an aoe damage move (small potency of course) and a small insta heal (basically a team wide embrace) so she could've actively competed with EOS, so I'd have a real choice on being offensive or defensive, which they already fit, they just needed to expand on that more. It's also unfair that SMN gets to keep 3 unique summons with different abilities with different effects, but ours is taken away from us. SMN lost nothing from ACN, but we lost everything it's so frustrating. We only got to keep the rez.

They've had 6 years to get healers down, and this is what they came up with, I dont want to wait 6 more years for them to maybe fix healers.

So reading what you just said (or typed) having both Faeries condensed into 1 Fairy just sounds like the better and more practical move. Unless your telling me that having Eos and Selena at the wrong time is just better somehow. Or that having 1 Fairy thats better then the other is better in some way. Your options are realistically not taken from you, they've been combined.
Probly the only thing that I know happened to Scholar that I legit feel sorry about is that its DPS DOTS were taken away, that and now you can't directly command the Fairy anymore. When I played, I liked dual casting my book spells and commanding the Fairy at the same time.
But the DPS options were taken away so that Scholar...a HEALER, could be more Focused on Healing. Obviously this is a HUGE change for Scholar, so it needs adjusting.....this can happen....say it with me....Ill be a broken record ALL DAY and Night.....In Time.

And if they are still struggling to get Healers fully balanced, I bet that means its not easy.
Which I could understand, because of the "Unique" styles all 3 have. WHM was left behind for a while because everyone loved SCH and AST so much. They were the Meta. Now they got gutted and now WHM is practically the best now, because it already fits the "Pure Healer" idea they wanna push.
And once again, they haven't hit the mark, cause now Ast and Sch are suffering like WHM was.
Its something thats not easily solved.

[Billythepancake]

So reading what you just said (or typed) having both Faeries condensed into 1 Fairy just sounds like the better and more practical move. Unless your telling me that having Eos and Selena at the wrong time is just better somehow. Or that having 1 Fairy thats better then the other is better in some way. Your options are realistically not taken from you, they've been combined.
Probly the only thing that I know happened to Scholar that I legit feel sorry about is that its DPS DOTS were taken away, that and now you can't directly command the Fairy anymore. When I played, I liked dual casting my book spells and commanding the Fairy at the same time.
But the DPS options were taken away so that Scholar...a HEALER, could be more Focused on Healing. Obviously this is a HUGE change for Scholar, so it needs adjusting.....this can happen....say it with me....Ill be a broken record ALL DAY and Night.....In Time.

And if they are still struggling to get Healers fully balanced, I bet that means its not easy.
Which I could understand, because of the "Unique" styles all 3 have. WHM was left behind for a while because everyone loved SCH and AST so much. They were the Meta. Now they got gutted and now WHM is practically the best now, because it already fits the "Pure Healer" idea they wanna push.
And once again, they haven't hit the mark, cause now Ast and Sch are suffering like WHM was.
Its something thats not easily solved.

They weren't combined. All of Selenes moves were taken away, they gutted her, that's different. No Fey wind, no aoe esuna, no silence. (Which all had a purpose in some sort of content) now shes nothing more than a skin for EOS, so yes, they took away my choice of fairy, just because they didnt want to give selene a kit that was good in any situation like EOS is (even though she was great in most content outside of savage, where healing was very light)
SCH will never focus on healing more because the game itself is not designed for it, they would have to completely rework the game to fit this idea of "healers need to heal" they stripped SCH of all of its dps abilities, gave it a ton of healing abilities, but I'm still over here hitting the very few dps abilities I have left 90% of the time. That's not even just SCH, AST and WHM are in the same boat, we're all over here just dpsing most of the time instead of healing, because theres not much healing to do. And this isn't as easy as "turn up damage" because the resources we have, we dont have the luxury of healing constantly. Any healer who constantly heals will find themselves running on empty much quicker than one who balances heals and dps. They'd have to redesign toolkits, resources, damage, dungeon designs, raid designs. They'd have to essentially redo the game, and has been proven with ShB, a single expansion cannot change the game at its core, you'd need more than 2 years to change what healers are at their core, imo, just embrace the green dps, give healers something to do in downtime, and a reward for maximizing that down time that isnt more of spamming the same button. As for meta, meta will always be a thing, it may change, but every online game has one. So long as classes offer different things, there will always be a combination of those classes that achieves the goal better than any other combination. Every online game developer has said they want to get rid of meta, but none of them have actually done it. We saw it here, the healer meta is still a thing, just now WHM booted out AST, so that excuse is crap.

6 years is plenty of time to fix this garbage. How much more time do they need? 6 more years? 20 more years? I know its not an easy solution, but they're not even trying. They're picking the most low effort solutions, the ones where its just "ah, make it all the same" because that's a lot more work than doing checks and balances. Because healers arent worth the effort.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

SCH will never focus on healing more because the game itself is not designed for it, they would have to completely rework the game to fit this idea of "healers need to heal" they stripped SCH of all of its dps abilities, gave it a ton of healing abilities, but I'm still over here hitting the very few dps abilities I have left 90% of the time. That's not even just SCH, AST and WHM are in the same boat, we're all over here just dpsing most of the time instead of healing, because theres not much healing to do. And this isn't as easy as "turn up damage" because the resources we have, we dont have the luxury of healing constantly. Any healer who constantly heals will find themselves running on empty much quicker than one who balances heals and dps. They'd have to redesign toolkits, resources, damage, dungeon designs, raid designs. They'd have to essentially redo the game, and has been proven with ShB, a single expansion cannot change the game at its core, you'd need more than 2 years to change what healers are at their core, imo, just embrace the green dps, give healers something to do in downtime, and a reward for maximizing that down time that isnt more of spamming the same button. As for meta, meta will always be a thing, it may change, but every online game has one. So long as classes offer different things, there will always be a combination of those classes that achieves the goal better than any other combination. Every online game developer has said they want to get rid of meta, but none of them have actually done it. We saw it here, the healer meta is still a thing, just now WHM booted out AST, so that excuse is crap.

They dont need to rework the game, they need to rework Scholar. Maybe even Ast.
Lol if you're running low on MP as a White Mage, your doing it wrong XD. Because WHM has always had the best MP management. Before SB they had Shroud, then that got turned into a role ability called Lucid and applied to all healers. And now WHM have Thin Air just...you practically can't run out of MP, especially with good Piety.
Of course Meta will always exist, Meta is fluid, it will always change, the point is they demolished the Current Meta.
We can all think X amount of time is plenty of time and castrate the devs all we want...never gonna change the fact that its never an easy fix, no matter how much we wish it, or think it is.

At this point I guess Healers are in nothing but in a bad state in your eyes, so trying to talk hope into you is just a wasted effort. I'll remain a firm believer that heals can be adjusted. Good adjustments have happened several times already, it can happen again.
Ill hold on to that hope, as small as everyone deems it.
Good Day.

[Jybril]

Hello everyone!

This is for Zanarkand-Ronso: I am a casual player just like you, but to say "Well I haven't had a problem, then no one else should" is really not good for discussion.
As a matter of fact, I don't see why you continue to respond to people when you have no real issues...>< But I see that most of your posts is about "Patience"
But I want to talk about these here.

Remember, it took Machinist 2 Expansions to become the awesome that it is now..

It took 2 expansion = 4 years to make MCH the way it needed to be.
Instead of making it BRD 2.0, this is what it should have been from the start.
That's a real long time, really. We don't need 2 jobs that act the same.
*Looks over at healers*

Are you sure it took TWO years? Because I saw more people running Ast then Whm perfectly fine before SB. And I came in Halfway through HW.
But even then, regardless....are you just gonna keep proving my point that changes can happen? SB changes, sounds like a change to me, just saying.
And yeah...that IS a good balance.....they just need to figure out how to make it work, which they haven't yet. But they still can!
So as a Healer Main, why not play Whm? Its actually really good. Or are you a Sch/Ast Main?

Maybe Im just to casual.

Yes, it did. Because you came in the middle of HW, you only seen it get better by a bit.
Launch AST was a complete and utter nightmare in near every aspect besides how different it felt from the healers.
I guess others felt the same and wanted something new to play as.
It began to truly shine in 4.0. I played through it the entire time from the bad to good because I tried to make it work and it was kinda fun with playing the Hands Of Fate.

It's not a good balance, it's a bandaid until they figure out what to do.
As what Mhikail and Billy said, it's they had all these years to figure out what to do and this is what they came up with? It's sad.
We know there will be change, but that us waiting at least another 2 years or expansion...I just want something new to play with...
How much patience do you really want from us? :/ It's tiring right now and people need to voice themselves so they can help the devs with some direction
because apparently they're at a lost because stripping down entire jobs identity and what made them unique is a major issue.