All Final Boss origins (spoilers obviously)

[Lambdafish]

So I just realised something today. With exception of Shinryu, every single final boss is final fantasy VII inspired (even 1.0). This might seem like a coincidence, but we are now 5 final bosses in, and 4/5 are from FFVII, has anyone else noticed this trend?

To recap:
1.0: Nael - Deliberately inspired by Sephiroth (VIIth legion, meteor project, etc.)
2.0: Ultima Weapon - Not exclusive to VII, but VII is the original incarnation of this form.
3.0: Thordan - Knights of the Round, a FFVII summon
4.0: Shinryu - FFV
5.0: Hades - A FFVII summon

It just seems odd when you write it down, especially considering there are so many other great candidates (or maybe something original?).


Edit: I've since learned that Hades was also in FFIX as a secret boss, and in FFXI, so I guess it lowers this one - I'd still like to see something not from VII though.

[HumanNinjaToo]

Actually Ultima Weapon first appeared in FF6 as Atma Weapon, so original source would be FF6 not FF7. Knights of the Round is not FF7 exclusive. It appeared in Type-0 as a summon, as well as some lesser known FF iterations. Hades was also in FF5, FF9, and was a boss in an FF11 expansion; so neither is Hades exclusive to FF7.

It just seemed like you were getting at the idea of bosses being ripped solely from FF7, when in fact many of those characters appeared in other FF titles.

Even though I really enjoy FF lore in general, and I get a kick out of characters from some of my favorite FF games being brought to life again in FF14, I can see the need for original characters as well. It can't all be fan service I guess.

[Lambdafish]

Actually Ultima Weapon first appeared in FF6 as Atma Weapon, so original source would be FF6 not FF7. Knights of the Round is not FF7 exclusive. It appeared in Type-0 as a summon, as well as some lesser known FF iterations. Hades was also in FF5, FF9, and was a boss in an FF11 expansion; so neither is Hades exclusive to FF7.

It just seemed like you were getting at the idea of bosses being ripped solely from FF7, when in fact many of those characters appeared in other FF titles.

Even though I really enjoy FF lore in general, and I get a kick out of characters from some of my favorite FF games being brought to life again in FF14, I can see the need for original characters as well. It can't all be fan service I guess.

I did not know that Hades was in FFIX thanks for clarifying that, that does make me feel slightly better about it.

As for KotR being in Type 0, that is a spin-off game, and the only example I can think of. I doubt the dev team even looked at Type 0 when coming up with Thordan. On the topic of 2.0, look up FFVI's atma weapon, its nothing like the FFXIV ultima weapon (and was later referenced in the dungeon boss Ultima Beast), the FFXIV Ultima Weapon is based on the FFVII design.

My opinion is less that "they are just from FFVII" and more that "FFVII is the defining appearance of this entity, and likely the inspiration for the FFXIV incarnation".


I guess my frustration comes from loving Emet-Selch as a character, and then reducing his final battle to yet another FFVII reference (in my mind at least). Keep the same fight, keep the same design but omit the name Hades and call the boss Emet-Selch, that would make it so much better in my eyes.

[Fal_Kearst]

Also fun fact Hades was the final boss in FFXI Seekers of Adoulin.

[HumanNinjaToo]

My opinion is less that "they are just from FFVII" and more that "FFVII is the defining appearance of this entity, and likely the inspiration for the FFXIV incarnation".

Okay, I see that point. Maybe some of the dev team responsible for those things were big FF7 fans? Or I would like to think that while they were working those things out, they were taking inspiration from the fact that FF7 20 year anniversary was last year. So maybe this was their way of recognizing that anniversary since SE as a company really failed to do anything else exciting with that hallmark anniversary.

[Seraphor]

Hades seems more likely drawn from FFIX to me.
Hades was originally intended to be the final boss of FFIX, but they decided against it as they didn't want to make a former summon the final boss of the game. So instead Necron came out of nowhere and Hades was relegated to a secret hidden boss.

Hades in FFXIV... seemed to come out of nowhere. Which is kinda fitting. (although fits perfectly considering the theme and nature of the Ascians)


It's more that they want the final boss of each expansion, to be a notable boss or summon from a previous game.
Ultima Weapon
Knights of the Round
Shinryu
Hades

[AuraAstra]

The concept of the Ultima Weapon as a boss has appeared in 9 of the "numbered" Final Fantasy games (as well as most of the spinoffs), with its first appearance in FFII. While the appearance is based on that of the Ultimate Weapon in FFVII, the idea is in no way unique to that game.

[HumanNinjaToo]

The concept of the Ultima Weapon as a boss has appeared in 9 of the "numbered" Final Fantasy games (as well as most of the spinoffs), with its first appearance in FFII. While the appearance is based on that of the Ultimate Weapon in FFVII, the idea is in no way unique to that game.

Not sure you can count that really. Soul of Rebirth was added for 20 year anniversary re-release for FF2 when it hit mobile platform in 2012 (I believe). So that was far from the first appearance of Ulitma Weapon in FF numbered franchise.

EDIT: But you're absolutely right in that Ultima Weapon is not unique to FF7. But I think the OP was making the point that the Ultima Weapon we see in FF14 was inspired by the FF7 version of Ultima Weapon.

[AuraAstra]

Not sure you can count that really. Soul of Rebirth was added for 20 year anniversary re-release for FF2 when it hit mobile platform in 2012 (I believe). So that was far from the first appearance of Ulitma Weapon in FF numbered franchise.

EDIT: But you're absolutely right in that Ultima Weapon is not unique to FF7. But I think the OP was making the point that the Ultima Weapon we see in FF14 was inspired by the FF7 version of Ultima Weapon.

Ultima Weapon first appeared in Dawn of Souls (the FFI and FFII compilation), which was released in 2004.

The point I was really trying to make was more that it's a bit off-point to suggest that just because the appearance was apparently inspired by a specific incarnation (or incarnations, because the FFVIII version also has a similar look), the entire boss was inspired by a single prior game.

Ultima Weapon is, in that sense, no different from any other "legacy" encounter used along the course of the story such as Ifrit or Shiva who have also been fixtures in the FF-verse.

[HumanNinjaToo]

Ultima Weapon first appeared in Dawn of Souls (the FFI and FFII compilation), which was released in 2004.

Still a decade after FF6's Altima Weapon, and 7 years after FF7's Ultima Weapon.