Thread: Spells and skill you want for your job in 6.0!

Originally Posted by Archwizard

While I understand the aesthetic appeal of giving Raise to a PLD (Arise, perhaps?), I have to worry about the logistics of it.

First, PLD has no Swiftcast. Unless they get a VERY heavily augmented one, like "several minute cooldown instant Raise", they would have to fullcast it every time unlike anyone else with a rez. To be honest, I think the only practical reason to give a raise to a tank would be in case a healer or the other tank dies, but that would be the worst possible time for a tank to drop everything for 8 seconds to get someone up.
And if you're going to make an instant cooldown to support the other tank, why go for a several minute CD that puts Weakness on your tank when you could just give him some heavy mitigation or an absorb or a delayed heal instead?

Second, you have to keep in mind that RDM already pays a pretty hefty tax for the theoretical utility it gets out of Raise. I'd already be concerned about how it would imbalance the tanks just having one with a rez, much less what cost that tank has to pay to keep it.

I'm not following your logic on why the other tank being dead would be the only time you'd use rez. I'd think it'd be much more useful if the other tank was still alive and both healers (plus any dps with a rez) went down. The other tank could blow some cooldowns and take the brunt of the aggro while the pally gets a healer up, and then the pally takes aggro and maybe uses a cooldown or two while the healer gets themselves and the other tank back to decent health, and then sets about rezzing the other healer/dead dps.

The question would be how to balance it (as you say). Dps lose rdps to have raise. Would pally also lose rdps? Would they lose the same absolute amount of rdps absolutely as a dps, making them by far the weakest tank, dps wise? Would they lose a proportional amount of rdps and therefore potentially put SMNs and RDMs out of the job because Pally is a cheaper backup rez in terms of how much dps you lose?

(It's at times like this that I really wish we had a talent system, where pally could voluntarily trade a good chunk of their dps for a raise. It wouldn't be optimal in most circumstances, but maybe if you're working with a party and everyone kept dying, it might be worth switching to just for that party. If it was an instant rez on a long cooldown, and you were going into a dungeon with a new healer, it might be worth switching to raise just for that dungeon to help prevent a wipe. Little things like that. You could design it so that the default talents were the most optimal for dps, but you could choose to trade out dps for other things, and it could just be etiquette in raids to use the default barring exceptional circumstances).

Originally Posted by Archwizard

First, PLD has no Swiftcast. Unless they get a VERY heavily augmented one, like "several minute cooldown instant Raise", they would have to fullcast it every time unlike anyone else with a rez. To be honest, I think the only practical reason to give a raise to a tank would be in case a healer or the other tank dies, but that would be the worst possible time for a tank to drop everything for 8 seconds to get someone up.
And if you're going to make an instant cooldown to support the other tank, why go for a several minute CD that puts Weakness on your tank when you could just give him some heavy mitigation or an absorb or a delayed heal instead?

For what it's worth, PLD already got a trait that makes spells instant while in Requiescat, so in that hypothetical situation it could work as their version of Swiftcast.

Originally Posted by Hatstand

(It's at times like this that I really wish we had a talent system, where pally could voluntarily trade a good chunk of their dps for a raise. It wouldn't be optimal in most circumstances, but maybe if you're working with a party and everyone kept dying, it might be worth switching to just for that party. If it was an instant rez on a long cooldown, and you were going into a dungeon with a new healer, it might be worth switching to raise just for that dungeon to help prevent a wipe. Little things like that. You could design it so that the default talents were the most optimal for dps, but you could choose to trade out dps for other things, and it could just be etiquette in raids to use the default barring exceptional circumstances).

Role actions already did this, and they were so poorly optimized/distributed that they just became universal abilities. I love the concept of choices, I do miss the talent system from WoW, but it's an illusion of choice because at the end of the day cookie cutter builds are always superior in such a way they're mandatory.

Originally Posted by Allegor

I love the concept of choices, I do miss the talent system from WoW, but it's an illusion of choice because at the end of the day cookie cutter builds are always superior in such a way they're mandatory.

That's only really true at higher difficulty levels, though. Actually, this was a constant source of frustration to me with WoW---abilities would get deleted because they were "non-viable", despite the fact that most players were doing content where those abilities were perfectly fine.