Reasonable buff to war

[Hierro]

WAR wasn’t fine in SB but there was just enough complexity in their stance dancing to keep them middle interesting. They lost that and gained nothing in ShB that’s the issue.

Complexity? Stance dancing? Did we play the same game? No one really stance danced outside of prog, and even then it was as simple as just waiting until you IB'd for any mechanic. The most complex thing was figuring out which opener to use to get another IR before a certain phase change.

[Satarn]

Complexity? Stance dancing? Did we play the same game? No one really stance danced outside of prog, and even then it was as simple as just waiting until you IB'd for any mechanic. The most complex thing was figuring out which opener to use to get another IR before a certain phase change.

This tbh. WAR didn't really "stance dance" any more than other tanks(or at least DRK, bc on PLD death was almost a preferable option to losing 2 gcds on Shield Oath).

I think removing the old stance mechanic was a stupid idea, because those "training wheels" allowed for more intense active mitigation requirements when aiming for more rDPS(also removing aggro instead of adding depth to it was lazy af), but the "stance dancing" was pretty much a myth.

The biggest difference between (post 4.2)SB and SHB WAR is swapping a bunch of downtime FCs into directcrit ICs and with that making crit/dh buffs(and with them gauge management) even less relevant, but that's really just doubling down on an effect that a lot of people have praised to havens in IR.

[BarretOblivion]

Complexity? Stance dancing? Did we play the same game? No one really stance danced outside of prog, and even then it was as simple as just waiting until you IB'd for any mechanic. The most complex thing was figuring out which opener to use to get another IR before a certain phase change.

Yes, it was imperative for prog and first few clears, after groups finally got to farm they wouldn't stance dance at all. Most would use WAR over other tanks because of its abliity to stance dance with no penalties, this was also essential if you wanted to make prog in Ultimate.

[millktea]

Complexity? Stance dancing? Did we play the same game? No one really stance ...

Yes, they did. Raid isnt everything. it doesnt matter if the MAX DPS is never swapping, the point is that it EXISTED.

It was "more complex" whether eye or some such was worth even putting up. without stance dancing, warrior lost a lot of it's complexity, REGARDLESS if you did not want to be in it for raid/max dps. it's other stance was still relevent/valid as equilibrium and unchained were tied to it, meaning you'd use both for the pull. with "defiance" gone, we can see how "empty" warrior actually is and it's lack of growth after it's 4.2 regression. War was mostly fine in 4.1, but due to player's lack of skill, this was changed. SE had two years to rework *that* rotation. they didnt. then, to be "clever", they took what was lost from the duality, and "pretended" that your new traits and skills were new things.

the complexity of the opener was the same 99% of the time. one of the ONLY few times where this EVER changed was suzaku ex (and uwu).

At the start of a trash pull in a dungeon, to be able to unchained + IR with a cyclone, trans between gcd into decimate absolutely made warrior more enjoyable. This is also true for a particular raid opener (non-nin) where you could unchained + eye + equilibrium + IB > trans into deliver FC. It's duality did have a small taste of convoluted quality, but that did not mean that the difficult was *that* high. the issue is that someone who doesn't know HOW to war, does too much damage.

By taking away Defiance's Inner Beast, Unchained, Cyclone enmity, eqilibrium heal/enmity, it loses a lot of it's toolkit and desirability . Warrior lost a detrimental amount of self-healing. equilibrium and tob arent enough, nascent is tied to a body and even then it is NOT ENOUGH. warrior could self heal at 70. this is gone at 80.

storm's eye was still problematic in SB. IR being only 10s with sks and ping dependency existed before ShB, it's just now it is excruciatingly obvious.

and war's dps in ShB IS bad as based on war's toolkit compared to the rest, it's dps is too low. you guys need to use your actual brain here. until the tanks have the EXACT same defensive toolkit as well as their DPS, they will never be balanced. PLD has a massive monopoly on raid mitigation. warrior has nowhere near that. SE legitimately made a pathetic attempt to try to make war ot valid, to play this bs game of "your tank doesnt matter", only it does matter. every major mechanic in raid hinders warrior. If they wanted to play this BS, then the tanks need to play exactly the same. EXACTLY.

dark needs to be fixed, but this isn't a dark thread. it's actually PLD that's to blame here, not war (and gunbreaker as well). we didn't need a new tank. we needed dark knight to be fixed. that meant at least to have LD adjusted and for it to be given a party mitigation CD.