Reasonable buff to war

[Liam_Harper]

Besides, from the look of things after thoroughly examining your logs, WAR sounds like just the job for you considering you don't really play tank.

What logs? As far as I know I don't really have many since my FC doesn't post logs. I'm fine admitting I don't savage at the moment and my SB War was usually around the 85-95th mark so take whatever you like from that. I generally play all 3 roles, it's good variety and gives you an insight into how each works and how to help make your teams life easier.

You're completely right its personal taste. I'm not saying anyone's opinion is "wrong", I'm just saying I find it hard to understand.

Warrior is by far in its most simplistic state ever. Emnity means nothing. You no longer have to maintain your gauge for that 5-10% crit. Onslaught is a no-brainer press twice between IR's, none of those stance->unchained->thrill tricks. No new abilities besides the clunky Nascent Flash and all this is on top of the fact War was already a meme for simplicity in SB, we've all seen the "how to play 4.2 War" pics.

If you enjoy it, that's great. I'm happy for you. I'm just saying I personally don't. It's not engaging. You get a week in and feel you've 95% mastered the class and don't really have much more to strive for. I'm not sure what purpose "great burst" even serves when emnity doesn't matter? Parsing mobs? Becoming the king of the 1 or 2 boss adds in the entire game that might be a threat? But maybe as you said you play War because you want the mediocre simplicity. I'm just surprised if the majority find it preferable gameplay.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

These are not comparable. Losing a Crit/Dh Fell Cleave is a significantly larger damage loss than missing Goring Blade under Fight or Flight. And while it typically is a timing issue on the player, no other tank is punished quite as severely because all of Warrior's damage is baked into a single button. Furthermore, Warrior is the only tank that outright must allow its buff to fall off in the opener otherwise it's actually a damage loss. This repeats in any instance where you'll gain a Fell Cleave in a pot/burst window. As for melding Skill Speed, this impacts the other tanks unless you only play Warrior—leaving you with two options: obtaining a separate set just for Warrior or rolling an inferior build.

No s*** it's a bigger loss of damage, but yes they are comparable, you screw up the timings, you lose damage, that's a players fault not the games fault, you changed it to damage loss comparison, I only compared using another skill I'm more familiar with as a comparision, which, it's on the player
.
And I don't bother much with WAR because 3 out of 4 tanks can share the same gear and melds, cba wasting time and effort on the odd tank out because of IR.

If you gain potency letting SE drop for a few seconds, then it's not that much of a big deal, since you're gonna re-apply it afterwards anyways, like some of the optimised PLD rotations actually let goring drop intentionally, or delay it's reapplication for rotational alignments with fights. Same thing here, you let damage drop to gain more damage.

That interaction with Infuriate is really clunky; forcing you to throw Inner Chaos out at specific points since you need to deplete charges otherwise you risk overcapping. This is only due to the fact IC replaces Fell Cleave, thus you can't simply hold an IC until after you finish your IR window. Dark Knight now has literally the same ability yet lacks this problem. Inner Chaos should be a separate button, especially seeing Warrior's hotbars are downright barren now. Nascent Flash doesn't come close to Paladin's OT utility, and lags significantly beside Intervention, TBN and Heart of Stone. Who cares about an AoE combo finisher when literally every tank got that?

I mean, just don't use infuriate when you're in IR or if you will overcap, kinda simple if you play it long enough you'll get used to it, again that's on the player's skill. NF does and it doesn't compare against Intervention, if PLD buffs Intervention then yea, NF is behind, but if a PLD is just throwing it out to not overcap gauge, then NF comes out ahead because the heal element, as both are base 10% DR.

The chap complains about getting nothing new, so I pointed out AoE combo finisher, which is in fact new, but not good enough because everyone gets one. I mean they could always take it away if you're not happy with it. But to disregard the fact they got new skills and abilities, as got nothing, is just yet another disgusting display of entitlement tbh.

[millktea]

I mean Storm's eye...

pld shouldn't have a gapcloser with a ranged magic attack that is instant cast. clemency should be the same as equilbrium.

one shouldnt need to meld just to play their job. synced down, those melds are lost. SE's focus was "to have jobs work at a low level". eye was a problem beforehand too, it always existed. none of the tanks should even be able to meld direct hit

nothing i said is "something to do with a child" or "immaturity". wanting to get the same amount of attention and care is also not childish. War did not naturally evolve, it's quite the opposite: it devolved. it evolved at the start of SB and it was stripped away in 4.2 and it never recovered.

the only thing that "evolved" was overpower's aoe into a combo refreshing SE. 10s isnt enough as you want at least 25 to 30s to go into IR. even more so with IC existing. spamming MT 3x and delaying IR about 6 gcds is ridiculous. this was an issue with drg. why did they make this mistake again?

IC is not a new interaction. its the same concept. its just a harder hitting fell cleave. you play it the same way you did previously: you pop it, you get gauge, you get an attack. its even the same button.


warrior got Chaotic Cyclone. this is steel cyclone that was replaced with the loss of dual tank stance. the animation is the same. the icon is the same. Changing FC into IC with infuriate is still FC x2 with DHC. it is the same animation as Inner Beast. the EXACT same. adding upheaval effects doesnt make it different. Tempest is a pvp skill refurbished/repurposed. its the same name and the same animation. Flash is bb and it is the only new "thing" war got. compared to the other tanks, this is nothing. it lost too much, so even if just flash alone was a gain, it isnt noteworthy as it lost its healing from SC,IB and buffed in IR. which was more balanced with pld's clemency (as you had to give up dps).

you can disbelieve the gnb sentiment, but it is a fact. it doesnt matter if its new. we didnt need a new tank. we needed DARK to be fixed. they had 2 years to adjust that evolution from 4.0. but they decided not to. they kept the bandaid and then put IC in to try to balance the lack of damage output outside of IR, and its not enough. its not a hyperpole as its very literal and its not an exaggeration.

the job is mediocre and behind the other tanks. if you actually played warrior, legitimately knew the ins and outs, youd know warrior got nothing.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

More nonsense and hyperbole...

First off, using HS as a reason for PLD shouldn't gain a gap closer is pathetic. HS / HC is only instacast if you req beforehand which itself is not ranged. All throughout SB there was a plethora of fights where knockbacks occurred, as this was an overused design, where tempered will on a 3 minute CD was not sufficient, but WAR and DRK had gap closers which were a fraction of the recast time, and allowed to negate (timed correctly) or lessen the uptime lost, which PLD could not. This, and TW being replaced with Arm's Length in the tank role action is more than enough justification for PLD gaining a gap closer. (Yes DRK had to use Plunge on CD, but could hold a couple seconds if a pushback wasn't far off).

I mean sometimes you have to meld to reach SkS tiers to make a job playable for some, and outside of that no you don't have to specifically meld to play a job, but it does help. If none of the tanks should meld DH okay remove the DH effect from IR, prevent DH affecting all damage dealt by tanks AND healers then. Thing is DH scales pretty well on tanks, and since it scales so well, many will want to meld it. You don't like it don't meld it, plenty other people do and will meld it.

Skipping half your we didn't get anything entitlement rant, but you keep saying WAR didn't get anything new, did WAR have Inner Chaos, Chaotic Cyclone, Nascent Flash, Mythril Tempest as they currently exist before 5.0? hmmm, nope, guess what that means....wait for it...you got something new...wow isn't it amazing!!!

Again with the GNB crap, so it's strictly subjective as to whether we needed a new tank or not in your eyes, but the thing is, many people are happy they added GNB, and yes having a new tank was needed to break up how stale it was for some, look at the healers reaction to not getting a new healer in 5.0, that would have been the same response from a lot of tanks.

DRK did need reworked, and it's a mixed bag, which some people like it, others don't, can't keep everyone happy.

Tbh, WAR has the best burst damage and the best personal mitigation suite out of all the tanks, so it's not behind the tanks in those regards, it's more balanced finally after all these years. Just get a better kill time. The job itself isn't mediocre it's just boring compared to the other tanks.

[whiskeybravo]

But maybe as you said you play War because you want the mediocre simplicity. I'm just surprised if the majority find it preferable gameplay.

I find it quite nice playing a job that hasn't been redesigned 3 times. WAR basically plays the same as it has since ARR, minor changes here and there but the base combo, gauge spenders and most of its CDs have been a staple since the beginning. Sure some will find that boring, but others like myself may prefer the stability.

[Satarn]

Ngl, I find it kinda fascinating how many people started complaining about IR in SHB and how simplistic WAR got, while back when these things happened in 4.2, most people were cheering about WAR "feeling so good to play now" and no longer being "clunky".

I'm sure it has nothing to do with SHB WAR no longer enjoying a dps advantage over rest of the tanks...

[NyneSwordz]

Im not one of those people. Guage halving on stance swap. Ir costing rage and halving rage cost was clunky. It wasn't really even complex it was just annoying to prep because u had to be max rage, prep with swing first, then theres a set sequence of buttons u press.

[shao32]

well holmgang duration is going to be buffed, meaby WARs are going to make a diference again.

[whiskeybravo]

Im not one of those people. Guage halving on stance swap. Ir costing rage and halving rage cost was clunky. It wasn't really even complex it was just annoying to prep because u had to be max rage, prep with swing first, then theres a set sequence of buttons u press.

That's what a rotation is, a set sequence of button presses. Doesn't really matter what those buttons are, there's an optimized order to press them in and you'll aim to do that every time.. Don't complain about lack of complexity when we had it before and "everyone" hated it. Sure it was clunky in a way, but it wasn't anything that couldn't be handled by sufficient preparation.

[Satarn]

Im not one of those people. Guage halving on stance swap. Ir costing rage and halving rage cost was clunky. It wasn't really even complex it was just annoying to prep because u had to be max rage, prep with swing first, then theres a set sequence of buttons u press.

Gauge halving on swap and IR cost didn't even last long enough to see the first raid tier in 4.05, but m'kay.

Pressing buttons in a sequence is very clunky tho, making every job into a button-mash qte would be ideal.