Reasonable buff to war

[millktea]

Yes it does need potency buffs. Warrior does NO DAMAGE outside of inner release. thats 80s of you just being stupid. mediocre fell cleave is a joke. and that is all you do, other than maybe one upheaval every 30s. crit makes a massive difference to OTHER WARRIORS you are competing against (gear discrepency), the scaling is not nearly as high as you are making it out to be. it wont be a significant enough change nor is it a justification to not provide potency buffs.

if you cannot get your IR off and it needed to get off [example, the rdps is so high you cannot use it (good example is E1S adds)] you suffer a bigger loss than anyone who is not bursty. this is the issue putting all of warrior's damage in a tiny 10s window. not only that, with the existance of NF which provides ways to self heal, you do not do enough damage to compare to the other tanks as their dps is spread out. so if you miss a FC or a window for IC, you are punished brutally compared.

Warrior doesn't need any DPS buff.

Extend Storm's Eye duration is ok, it could help.

I dont understand why ppl playing warrior feel bad if they are not Tank Top DPS...I dont see the point...Its like they think that Top DPS for Warrior is a must...when it doesn't make any sense. Maybe is because War used to be tank Top DPS in old expansions like Stormblood or Heavensward? i dont know.

Warrior was only top tank dps in Stormblood. Warrior and Dark Knight were competitive in dps. only paladin stood no chance. it does make sense. Paladin offers a massive opportunity in rDPS gains with the toolkit for utility. warrior only has shake it off, which costs resources. However, this means Dark Knight needed a bit more as it too didnt have as much ultility.

storm's eye being bumped 40s is not just "ok", it would make a massive difference and will definitely be a dps gain. there are times you have to spam eye twice just to make sure it doesnt fall off before IR. No other tank needs to prepare a self-buff like eye before their burst phase. this often at times can just push back your burst due to boss jumps or mechanics and costs the warrior synergy with the party. this isn't just some "okay it could help", this is something that will help.

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, and all three of these jobs make far more extensive use of aether than Warrior does.

Warrior literally raises dust storms around itself from emitted aether. That Warrior may use it less than the other tanks doesn't mean that Warrior would gain nothing of significance from their use of it. Nor should "use of aether" alone explain relatively poorer tank performance.

warrior only has shake it off, which costs resources.

No, it doesn't. It will still do 12% target HP absorption (greater than Divine Veil on co-tank, about even on melee, and only a bit worse on everyone else, atop affecting self while Divine Veil will not and stackable with ToB and TBN for 57% HP absorption) on a 25% shorter CD and without a healing activation requirement even if you feed it no resources. You also can feed it only the last 1 to .5 seconds of said buffs if you wish as their remaining duration does not matter at all. A well-used Nascent Flash provides more restoration than Intervention does mitigation except vs. one-shot mechanics and self-heals in the bargain. Both of those WAR tools are technically superior to PLD's. WAR just lacks Passage of Arms; that's it. As does GNB and DRK, who instead offer every 90 seconds nearly the same strength against raid damage as Passage of Arms does every 2 minutes despite the latter requiring no movement or actions over its use.

PLD offers the least free combined HPS/APS to its co-tank over time and its one additional raid mitigation skill is painfully situational. Aurora + HoS, TBN, and NF all outperform Intervention (the worst on-demand cross-mitigation skill) and Cover (a skill which deals no mitigation yet costs an Intervention or Shelltron).

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Fair enough. However...

WAR hasn't really changed that much since Stormblood. If you're finding it boring now, then it almost certainly was boring then, too.

This... is badly erroneous or oversimplified, depending on how obtuse you intend to be. We might as well say that DRK without MP, lifesteal, Blood skills, or shadow aesthetics would still be just the same as when it had those things.

By all means, if you didn't enjoy the job before, don't feel compelled to give it even a fair shake now. But let's not call what was drastically changed for the less involved or entertaining for a significant number of players "unchanged".

[Absimiliard]

Warrior literally raises dust storms around itself from emitted aether. That Warrior may use it less than the other tanks doesn't mean that Warrior would gain nothing of significance from their use of it. Nor should "use of aether" alone explain relatively poorer tank performance.

My response was to a post about job identity, part of which is a job's lore and the nature of its abilities beyond just their numbers. Part of their reasoning for warriors deserving to be top DPS was that they carry a giant axe. If having a giant axe qualifies as a valid argument, then I would posit that pointing out the job's lack of aetherial manipulation as compared to the other tanks should be a permissible counterpoint. I am unsure as to why that poster believed their possession of a giant axe justified giving them higher DPS than the other tanks, however. Regardless, my response to them was largely tongue-in-cheek, as there is no valid justification for giving warriors higher damage than the other tanks with current design accounted for, particularly if we consider that GNB exists.

In any case, to reply to the rest of the thread: I do not feel that warriors are currently disadvantaged. They just aren't the dominating force they were before. The other tanks certainly deserve their chance to shine, and the excellent balance SE has struck between them at this point in the game has provided just such an opportunity.

[Shurrikhan]

My response was to a post about job identity, part of which is a job's lore and the nature of its abilities beyond just their numbers. Part of their reasoning for warriors deserving to be top DPS was that they carry a giant axe. If having a giant axe qualifies as a valid argument, then I would posit that pointing out the job's lack of aetherial manipulation as compared to the other tanks should be a permissible counterpoint. I am unsure as to why that poster believed their possession of a giant axe justified giving them higher DPS than the other tanks, however. Regardless, my response to them was largely tongue-in-cheek, as there is no valid justification for giving warriors higher damage than the other tanks with current design accounted for, particularly if we consider that GNB exists.

In any case, to reply to the rest of the thread: I do not feel that warriors are currently disadvantaged. They just aren't the dominating force they were before. The other tanks certainly deserve their chance to shine, and the excellent balance SE has struck between them at this point in the game has provided just such an opportunity.

Ahh, I see. Sorry I missed the (deserved) off-handedness of the response.

Personally, if there were other things at nearly the value of rDPS, I wouldn't mind seeing Warrior be the "skipped utility; more wham-wham" tank. But I also think it'd waste opportunities that'd be at least as interesting in the form of Warcry-type raid utilities or the like, as its own answer to the utility capacity of other tanks alongside its similarly equal damage.

Nonetheless, I agree that as things stand now, there is neither space nor reason for an intentionally "lead rDPS" tank, exactly. I'd also agree that number-wise, WAR's position is nearly fine. There are some parts of its internal balance and significant losses to its iconic capacities (e.g. lifesteal, which it specialized in prior to DRK) that I'd love to see patched, but that's a separate issue. I'd also personally prefer that GNB had just a bit more utility in place of a smidgen of its damage. Heck, I'd prefer that DRK's Living Shadow was a bit more responsive and Blood Weapon effectively lasted almost a half-second longer -- which might well be enough to push it up to PLD and GNB already, despite arguably having the most OT APS/HPS of the bunch (which might make it then be a tad too powerful, in which case I'd be fine with a 20% TBN, as that'd also be more future-proofed against future issues by which it'd be near impossible to pop in certain dungeons). But for the most part I'm pretty happy with tank balance this time around.

[Absimiliard]

Snip

No worries. I may not have made the intended sarcasm clear enough. A consequence of writing the post while exhausted, perhaps.

Anywho, I'm inclined to agree with you; both about WAR probably needing minor tweaks insofar as its internal balance and iconic abilities go and about DRK's God awful blood weapon window. The former could do with having a bit of its individuality restored, if nothing else. The good news is that WAR's stat scaling is usually quite good. There's no telling what their DPS will be compared to the other tanks as the expansion carries forward, but I'd wager it'll at least end up on par with PLD in terms of overall damage output. Poor balancing in the past allowed it to become godlike compared to the other tanks, but that probably (and rightfully) will not be the case this time. SE did a good job.

Not everyone can be picked.

The difference between tanks is so minute this time around that what differences in performance they DO have should really only matter to people racing for world firsts. For everyone else, any tank is perfectly fine. They're all more than just "viable" this time. And what's more, the two tanks whose damage is on the slightly lower end compensate for it by having hilarious amounts of durability.