Reasonable buff to war

[NyneSwordz]

I'm not saying it was the rotation that made him the best, but that it's the clue he was a real favourite.
So much it began to be custom made, like design on demand to some influencers ideas. It was already n°1 in damage, even when you were not so lucky with crits in burst windows, someone got whining "I am still too much crit dependant, we should be criting every FC" and you're like yeah right as if you needed that but BAM ; within 2 months it got inner release rework full guaranteed crit DH in debuff window, like wth.
Meanwhile Bards had to wait an expansion to not be so stat dependant desperately seeking always crit stuff pieces because both part of their rotation AND their damage felt like shit without 3k + crit.

All I'm saying is : it's never fun to get stripped of things, but please deal with not being top for a few months after 4 years of domination.

For me, it has nothing to do with being "top" or "dominating." I couldn't care less about dps unless there was a gigantic discrepancy. However, warrior gameplay i feel has really deteriorated. I miss having 2 buffs and a debuff to maintain. I miss the powerful feeling of lining up berserk, infuriate and bloodbath. High level tanks didn't use tank stance in raids. Okay, but I loved spamming steel cyclone in dungeons or being able to pull through when my healer dies in a dungeon cuz of my great self sustain in tank stance with ib.

Aoe ing was just overpower twice then single target combo to decimate which felt fine and wasn't clunky like overpower to mythril tempest is now.

All this stuff didnt necessarily make warrior a top tank for raids. But IT WAS FUN. To me anyway.

ShB war design just doesnt feel as cohesive as past iterations did.

Even if wars were so-called top in demand tank right now with top dps, I'd still hate it and much prefer its hw or sb versions.

Last thing, i always rolled my eyez when people complain about "fell cleave spam meme" or whatever, but now, i kinda get it. ShB warrior is a fc spam bot. Even more so with infuriate and ic - which is just another fc in my mind. Would be nice to have some kind mechanic around maybe upheaval, or upheaval applying a dot or something instead of more fc spamming.

Or maybe some kind of defensive manuever tied to beast guage. Maybe a heal tied to it? Or something to fill in the hole left by the absence of ib as a rage spender whose primary purpose was mitigation and self heal.

I actually miss inner beast.

Eh...

[Karshan]

However, warrior gameplay i feel has really deteriorated.

That, however, I can hear. Even in SB actually it began ; my buddy was really disappointed when they removed all the Small / Big zerk rotation when managing ressource was a real thing and gave spice.

Now it's like the heals : you're all in line, quite boring rotation wise (with gnb being the only one feeling a bit engaging ? Heck maybe it's just novelty even, to be checked in a few months).

So compared to previous gameplay yeah your rotation changed a lot ; but DRK got streamlined too, and PLD didn't need to get streamlined cause it was already straightforward af.

So where I wanted to go : true you've taken a hit ; but you're not behind, just in line. So asking for a rework, from the outside, sounds like : "I don't want to be in line with others".
So either all tanks revolt about their rotation to have it more diversed (the danger being breaking balance which is really decent for tanks this time, see the mess with melee vs range DPS), or none.

[Lyth]

Holmgang is now at 8 seconds without any penalty, which makes it flat out more powerful than both Superbollide and Living Dead. They buffed Raw Intuition as well.

[Shurrikhan]

Holmgang is now at 8 seconds without any penalty, which makes it flat out more powerful than both Superbollide and Living Dead. They buffed Raw Intuition as well.

Yeah, I don't get it. At worst, Holmgang now has the same cost as Superbolide (full HP lost over duration), less cost than Living Dead (up to 2x full HP - 1), is still easier to work with than Living Dead and only slightly harder to work around than Superbolide (and only arguably so even then)... And yet it costs less recast time than either?

Raw Intuition requires less time to charge than Shelltron and comes at a lesser opportunity cost, if only due to NF being so much weaker than Intervention. Why does it now need the same duration as it and nearly that of the 25% weaker Heart of Stone?

...I would have been perfectly happy with IC being nerfed to 900 potency (or less, as necessary) but now gain damage from our excess Direct Hit and Critical Hit chance, rather than wasting it. That and some QoL changes to NF. At least then we wouldn't be disadvantaged by certain compositions and our RI-alternative would feel more attractive.

[Satarn]

Yeah, I don't get it. At worst, Holmgang now has the same cost as Superbolide (full HP lost over duration), less cost than Living Dead (up to 2x full HP - 1), is still easier to work with than Living Dead and only slightly harder to work around than Superbolide (and only arguably so even then)... And yet it costs less recast time than either?

Well yeah, but before you couldn't use it for entire Stonecrusher that one time, so that naturally made the skill and entire job utterly worthless. Nobody cares about the recharge, that's never useful /s

Honestly tough, I would gladly take an extra 5% on Heart of Stone even if it came with some slight potency nerfs to GNB.

[BarretOblivion]

Well yeah, but before you couldn't use it for entire Stonecrusher that one time, so that naturally made the skill and entire job utterly worthless. Nobody cares about the recharge, that's never useful /s

Honestly tough, I would gladly take an extra 5% on Heart of Stone even if it came with some slight potency nerfs to GNB.

I mean... holmgang is really nice in Levi with a DRK. You never share/split any tankbusters with that comp.
Holmgang isn't bad once it gets the buff, but... the duration change makes it almost as useful to me as Living Dead outside of requiring an exceptional amount of healing. Heal a WAR enough for them to survive while thier self heal helps a bit is nice. But, making all damage 0 adds another layer that healers love. PLD? Don't even consider them apart of the fight for 10 secs which is great for catching up or just free damage. Superboilde? Throw a regen on them and dps/catch up like PLD while the GNB is likely to put thier own regen on themselves.

With DRK/WAR there is a bit of a 'emergency' because you have to have them at a safe HP number as the duration runs out (and the required healing for DRK to not die) all the while any heals you throw at them during the invuln can be nulled out by auto atacks or tankbusters like stonecrusher. Complete invuln of damage alows safe heals or ignoring heals in PLD's case.

[Hanayumi]

Overall War is pretty fine where it is, sure their dps is a bit on the low end, but have to keep in mind that War's scale far better with crit than the other tanks, so late into the 5.X dps should be pretty decent. As for the feel think most of the jobs took a hit, skill trimming, simplifying, balancing, and what not, got worked into a lot of the jobs, and it'll prolly happen again for next expac, might be a day where we get like single button combos and such. So yeah... take it or leave it, devs are pretty content with how the tanks are right now and if you really hate how it feels there are plenty of other jobs to play around with, dont see any major changes happen till next expac. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[shao32]

i wonder when they are going to buff heart of stone, 5% damage reduction less and just 1 sec more of duraction compared to raw it's not fair at all.

[Shurrikhan]

i wonder when they are going to buff heart of stone, 5% damage reduction less and just 1 sec more of duration compared to raw it's not fair at all.

I feel like NF is sort of our keystone or bottleneck issue here. Intervention equates to Shelltron mitigation off a single CD, which is allowing that skill to exploit the hell out of the both-tanks-take-damage-simultaneously fights. TBN is better on whichever tank has more HP without having too much percentile mitigation to pop it. HoS is faintly better on the OT than MT, just in that it at least duplicates the 150 shield potency of Brutal Shell (*soul-crushed chuckle*). And then there's IR vs. NF, which varies wildly and the latter of which really doesn't feel as smooth to use, especially in that your burst rarely lines up so well with their burst, or either of your burst with the periods where you'd need rapid health recovery.

Depending on what they do with NF, we may simply see HoS duration increased, maybe its laughable Brutal Shell heal doubled if not used on a target, and for future Brutal Shells to be affected (if the shield mechanic isn't outright moved over to Burst Strike instead, which would be far more flexible in its timing) instead of only the first, or we may see the self-effect split from the external effect and Aurora buffed to compensate (such as with a Clemency half-heal-also-to-self effect). Who knows?

[Capn_Goggles]

i wonder when they are going to buff heart of stone, 5% damage reduction less and just 1 sec more of duraction compared to raw it's not fair at all.

You can also use heart of stone on other people, which also carries the nice little bonus of giving them Brutal Shell as well; also, superbolide is much easier to work with since it adds invulnerability. Aside that, Gunbreaker is more focused on offense than defense, so it makes sense that the tank with the lowest offense would have a robust defensive suite.